I probably will upgrade. Mostly for the rounded end caps and a few other things like the improved scripting.
Like others in this thread, I feel that the "Pro" moniker is a bit of a stretch. Upgrades have often included lots of features that weren't that well thought out while basic functionalities that could do with some serious TLC have been overlooked (the timeline comes to mind).
I've seen features being implemented at animator's requests by software developers at first hand. This is how it went:
Animator: We need X
Developer: (1 month later) Here's X
Animator: (1 week later) Sorry, under real world pressures, X doesn't hold up.
What followed was a back and forth between animators and developers, continuously improving X to the point where it really delivered. This took many months. The developers probably hated us after that. After all, didn't they already have a version that was "good enough" after a month?
But they ended up with a really robust, bullet-proof feature in their application that can withstand any comparison to any other application. So if anything, they should be grateful to the animators for kicking their backsides repeatedly.
Someone should be kicking the ASP developer(s) backside(s) repeatedly.
Development should be a bit more focused, like: "In version 9, we will concentrate on motion-curves, layered output and custom shortcuts" and then really, really kick them into shape. At the moment the improvements can feel a bit thin, a bit sprinkled here and there. Or if it's a new feature, it never feels like it made it past the first proof-of-concept stage.
Let me make one thing clear. I write all this because I like ASP. I criticise because I really want it to do so much better.
Waiting to upgrade? Tell me why!
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Hey Tori. I guess I fall into the novice/hobbyist category. I have been using Anime Studio since version 6. I have already upgraded to version 8, because I like bright and shiny things. I really think it is a great program. Although, if I were you, I wouldn't mention being associated with Poser in this forum, because it's almost like heresy to these guys. As a matter of fact, I think I am the only one who has posted any clips using this feature. There are a lot of those here who feel that it was just a wasted feature.To each his own I guess, they don't have to use the feature if they don't want to. There are a couple of features that I don't have much use for right now but I like having the options open to me. More options are always a good thing. For those here who think of themselves as Professionals, get over yourselves. For the lowest price vs. features animation software, Anime Studio is by far and away the cheapest on the market today. If you could get the same results from another software why aren't you using it? I think I pay more for my cable and Internet per month than the price of the software. I don't go complaining to the cable company for channels that I don't watch that are included in the service. As for the Pro moniker, maybe Tori, you folks should put out a version that strips out all of the offending features like Poser, the 3-D layer conversion, global rendering styles and such then jack up the price to what other software companies charge. Slap the Pro moniker on that version and then they can say to themselves"yeah I know I'm paying five times the price, but at least i didn't pay for extra features that I couldn't figure out how to incorporate into my workflow. Wow that was a close one."Come on people, it's a no-brainer. If you can see a use for the new features, upgrade. If not and are happy with the results you're getting, then don't. Sorry Tori to go off on a bit of a rant, but the excuses and complaints that people are using, just don't hold water. Anyway glad to see you and Mike taking a more active role here in the form. Welcome aboard 
Hey, I don't denigrate you for having your opinion. Lay off me for having mine...jonbo wrote:Hey Tori. I guess I fall into the novice/hobbyist category. I have been using Anime Studio since version 6. I have already upgraded to version 8, because I like bright and shiny things. I really think it is a great program. Although, if I were you, I wouldn't mention being associated with Poser in this forum, because it's almost like heresy to these guys. As a matter of fact, I think I am the only one who has posted any clips using this feature. There are a lot of those here who feel that it was just a wasted feature.To each his own I guess, they don't have to use the feature if they don't want to. There are a couple of features that I don't have much use for right now but I like having the options open to me. More options are always a good thing. For those here who think of themselves as Professionals, get over yourselves. For the lowest price vs. features animation software, Anime Studio is by far and away the cheapest on the market today. If you could get the same results from another software why aren't you using it? I think I pay more for my cable and Internet per month than the price of the software. I don't go complaining to the cable company for channels that I don't watch that are included in the service. As for the Pro moniker, maybe Tori, you folks should put out a version that strips out all of the offending features like Poser, the 3-D layer conversion, global rendering styles and such then jack up the price to what other software companies charge. Slap the Pro moniker on that version and then they can say to themselves"yeah I know I'm paying five times the price, but at least i didn't pay for extra features that I couldn't figure out how to incorporate into my workflow. Wow that was a close one."Come on people, it's a no-brainer. If you can see a use for the new features, upgrade. If not and are happy with the results you're getting, then don't. Sorry Tori to go off on a bit of a rant, but the excuses and complaints that people are using, just don't hold water. Anyway glad to see you and Mike taking a more active role here in the form. Welcome aboard
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
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ponysmasher
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:23 am
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
Absolutely. But I wouldn't mind paying more for it if certain features were implemented.jonbo wrote:For those here who think of themselves as Professionals, get over yourselves. For the lowest price vs. features animation software, Anime Studio is by far and away the cheapest on the market today.
I'm always trying out new software and AS Pro is still the best. I just feel that Smith Micro is selling the software short. In my opinion they could separate Debut and Pro more and the Pro version could easily become very big in the animation industry if it was more... Pro.jonbo wrote:If you could get the same results from another software why aren't you using it?
Well, yes. Kind of. As I said before, I think they should have a bigger separation between the Debut and Pro versions.jonbo wrote:As for the Pro moniker, maybe Tori, you folks should put out a version that strips out all of the offending features like Poser, the 3-D layer conversion, global rendering styles and such then jack up the price to what other software companies charge.
Don't get me wrong, I love the software and I know you can make absolutely great stuff with it, it's just some workflow features I think are missing. I'll continue to buy it no matter how many unused features (by me) they implement as long as we also get improvements like in the recent version (layered photoshop files, round caps, transparent gradients etc).
I'm a very amateurish hobbyist. I'm a retired programmer with lots of time on my hands. I've always loved animation and drawing although I've never had any training or even any talent. But I've always enjoyed it as a spectator and I've always enjoyed drawing.
I don't really have much of an idea what the pros need but if they say they aren't getting it I guess I believe them and they provide a lot of entertainment for me so that's important.
However, what you guys have done for me as a hobbyist is pretty nice and I thank you.
I began playing with a pirate copy of version 5 that I found somewhere. I was fascinated and when I went to buy it (I always buy software I use) version 6 had just come out so I bought it. I've made both upgrades since then. I haven't used most of the new features in each upgrade but I've enjoyed those I have used.
I'm surprised at the complaints you guys are getting about the upgrade price. It's obvious that a lot of work went into this version and paying for that seems fair. A lot of software does provide cheap upgrades but most of the better software doesn't.
I've played with both the character generator and the image tracing and they both draw better than I do. I'll find them useful. I do agree that the image tracing isn't as good as others I've used but it's not bad.
Barry
I don't really have much of an idea what the pros need but if they say they aren't getting it I guess I believe them and they provide a lot of entertainment for me so that's important.
However, what you guys have done for me as a hobbyist is pretty nice and I thank you.
I began playing with a pirate copy of version 5 that I found somewhere. I was fascinated and when I went to buy it (I always buy software I use) version 6 had just come out so I bought it. I've made both upgrades since then. I haven't used most of the new features in each upgrade but I've enjoyed those I have used.
I'm surprised at the complaints you guys are getting about the upgrade price. It's obvious that a lot of work went into this version and paying for that seems fair. A lot of software does provide cheap upgrades but most of the better software doesn't.
I've played with both the character generator and the image tracing and they both draw better than I do. I'll find them useful. I do agree that the image tracing isn't as good as others I've used but it's not bad.
Barry
I do animation professionally, have done so for the last 15 years. That makes me a professional animator, I'm sorry if that offends you. This thread is for people to introduce themselves to Tori and give their opinion on AS, no need for personal attacks.jonbo wrote:For those here who think of themselves as Professionals, get over yourselves.
Hey jahnoci, I didn't mean your opinion is any more or less valuable than mine, sorry if it came across that way. You're one of the people who hasn't found a need to upgrade to these features. Smart of you to see what will help you before you bought unlike some who bought the upgrade and then complained they don't need some features.
manu; that comment was directed to those who feel they're getting short-changed with AS. The price of AS compared to the top end animation software is really low. In any work, you use whatever tool helps you get the job done reguardless to the tools price.
Sorry to have offended; I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.
manu; that comment was directed to those who feel they're getting short-changed with AS. The price of AS compared to the top end animation software is really low. In any work, you use whatever tool helps you get the job done reguardless to the tools price.
Sorry to have offended; I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.
hey all! Thank you so much for all the posts and messages - It's super helpful, and great to see! I'm heading out early today to do a road trip to visit some family coming to California - so I apologize for the more general reply until next week when I get my head back above water!
One big favor - let's just remember to be nice here about everything. Poser has a pretty uphill battle getting respect too. Let's just try and remember that everything that's said is valid at least to the person saying it - and respect and build on things in a positive way. Honestly, in fighting in forums is the quickest way to make me hide under my desk...so let's play and have fun!
See you all on Monday, have a GREAT weekend!
One big favor - let's just remember to be nice here about everything. Poser has a pretty uphill battle getting respect too. Let's just try and remember that everything that's said is valid at least to the person saying it - and respect and build on things in a positive way. Honestly, in fighting in forums is the quickest way to make me hide under my desk...so let's play and have fun!
See you all on Monday, have a GREAT weekend!-
digitalartguru
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:15 am
I have AS Pro 7.mykylr wrote:My main reason to wait is the high cost of upgrading. As I mentioned on an earlier post elsewhere for $59 or $69 for these 5 days it would have been a no brainer to upgrade as the new tools do seem very good from what I have seen.
However for only $29 reduction special its not really an impulse buy at $99 so i am waiting till I need to use AS pro.
Cheers
Mike R
I am with Mike on this Tori.
It seems that the new version still needs more to justify the full upgrade cost. The way it is now, it should be a 1/2 upgrade at a 1/2 upgrade cost until its developed some more ( more features, etc. )
The Character Wizard also needs more work. It doesn't make sense that we can't alter or create bodies for it.
Last edited by digitalartguru on Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
I can tell you why I *did* upgrade from 5.6 to 8.
5.6 was my first release, the features were a bit of a "WOW" especially for the price.
AS 6 came out soon after I bought 5.6 but not soon enough for me to qualify for the 'free' upgrade and I couldn't/wouldn't justify the expense.
AS 7 just didn't seem to have anything to encourage me to buy it
AS 8 with the tracing, character wizard (yes the Character Wizard) plus some more basic things from other releases such as the colour palette, better drawing tools and, for me, slicker interface seemed a worthier purchase. It also meant that, effectively, I'd paid $33 per upgrade which swung the $99 upgrade. That's how I explained it to the missus (and myself) anyway.
5.6 was my first release, the features were a bit of a "WOW" especially for the price.
AS 6 came out soon after I bought 5.6 but not soon enough for me to qualify for the 'free' upgrade and I couldn't/wouldn't justify the expense.
AS 7 just didn't seem to have anything to encourage me to buy it
AS 8 with the tracing, character wizard (yes the Character Wizard) plus some more basic things from other releases such as the colour palette, better drawing tools and, for me, slicker interface seemed a worthier purchase. It also meant that, effectively, I'd paid $33 per upgrade which swung the $99 upgrade. That's how I explained it to the missus (and myself) anyway.
Hello. I guess I would say I'm more of a hobbyist. I have a couple youtube channels where I display my animation:
http://www.youtube.com/user/sharkytrue
http://www.youtube.com/user/CartoonOverlord
I've been animating for a few years now, but I've worked in entertainment for much longer. Recently I've been getting some paid work for animation. I also make a little bit off the youtube channels since I am a partner.
I wasn't planning to upgrade. I had some serious issues with version 7 that involved the software crashing during rendering or having the rendered video missing audio assets. 7 would also crash for no reason from time to time and just seemed in general slower and glitchier.
I like the new features in 7 and 8, and I got this idea that maybe the issues with 7 would be fixed in version 8 (since we weren't likely to see an upgrade for 7 again). I went ahead and got version 8.
The first thing I did was go back and render the file I had problems rendering with 7. Version 8 also crashed half way through rendering. This is a file that renders perfectly well in version 6.
I really hope you guys get a more robust bug-testing pipeline going. I have to agree with other users here that you aren't putting this software through a rigorous enough process before sending it out. You are adding features faster than you can make them work properly.
Other issues I've had:
- Eyedropper tool stops working (even in version 6)
- Sometimes cutting and pasting camera keyframes stops working.
- I've had keyframes appear on my timeline for no reason.
- Even in version six I save repeatedly because the program has a tendency to crash.
- AVI files are rendered with some of the audio assets missing.
- Strange wiggle in image layers that I just noticed. Once again this is in a file that rendered fine in 6, when rendered in 8 the wiggle appears. Same exact file.
So I guess you could put me in the category of "I DID upgrade, but now I wish I hadn't." You can also put me in the category of some one who loves the software, but those feelings end after version 6.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sharkytrue
http://www.youtube.com/user/CartoonOverlord
I've been animating for a few years now, but I've worked in entertainment for much longer. Recently I've been getting some paid work for animation. I also make a little bit off the youtube channels since I am a partner.
I wasn't planning to upgrade. I had some serious issues with version 7 that involved the software crashing during rendering or having the rendered video missing audio assets. 7 would also crash for no reason from time to time and just seemed in general slower and glitchier.
I like the new features in 7 and 8, and I got this idea that maybe the issues with 7 would be fixed in version 8 (since we weren't likely to see an upgrade for 7 again). I went ahead and got version 8.
The first thing I did was go back and render the file I had problems rendering with 7. Version 8 also crashed half way through rendering. This is a file that renders perfectly well in version 6.
I really hope you guys get a more robust bug-testing pipeline going. I have to agree with other users here that you aren't putting this software through a rigorous enough process before sending it out. You are adding features faster than you can make them work properly.
Other issues I've had:
- Eyedropper tool stops working (even in version 6)
- Sometimes cutting and pasting camera keyframes stops working.
- I've had keyframes appear on my timeline for no reason.
- Even in version six I save repeatedly because the program has a tendency to crash.
- AVI files are rendered with some of the audio assets missing.
- Strange wiggle in image layers that I just noticed. Once again this is in a file that rendered fine in 6, when rendered in 8 the wiggle appears. Same exact file.
So I guess you could put me in the category of "I DID upgrade, but now I wish I hadn't." You can also put me in the category of some one who loves the software, but those feelings end after version 6.
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ponysmasher
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:23 am
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
I get this too (since v7), but only on multicore machines. It will render two images with antialiasing then two without and so on, causing a wiggle. It's one of the reasons I upgraded, being able to turn off multi core rendering, so try disabling that and see if it works.Overdroid wrote: - Strange wiggle in image layers that I just noticed. Once again this is in a file that rendered fine in 6, when rendered in 8 the wiggle appears. Same exact file.
Btw, this only happens if I have large images and render in HD-resolution.
Hi Tori,
It's great to see you here. I suppose I'm a 'professional' animator as that's what I do for a living. I have used Anime Studio for a couple of paying jobs but I'm working on my own project using AS in my spare time at present. You can see some of my work via the links at the bottom of this post if you are interested.
I have upgraded but mainly to support development and, hopefully, keep Anime Studio a viable product for Smith Micro. Unfortunately I don't feel that those of us that do upgrade year after year are rewarded for our loyalty. The new features were, for me, not very exciting at all and had it not been for the above reasons I don't think I would have upgraded this time.
There are features asked for often that seem to be ignored and I think it will only be a matter of time before users, especially more serious one's, if not give up on the software altogether (as it is still excellent) do stop upgrading as there's not really much point.
Dale
It's great to see you here. I suppose I'm a 'professional' animator as that's what I do for a living. I have used Anime Studio for a couple of paying jobs but I'm working on my own project using AS in my spare time at present. You can see some of my work via the links at the bottom of this post if you are interested.
I have upgraded but mainly to support development and, hopefully, keep Anime Studio a viable product for Smith Micro. Unfortunately I don't feel that those of us that do upgrade year after year are rewarded for our loyalty. The new features were, for me, not very exciting at all and had it not been for the above reasons I don't think I would have upgraded this time.
There are features asked for often that seem to be ignored and I think it will only be a matter of time before users, especially more serious one's, if not give up on the software altogether (as it is still excellent) do stop upgrading as there's not really much point.
Dale
Hi Tori,
Thanks for asking for our opinions.
I will always upgrade without fail as I can see the potential in this software to be the greatest 2D animation software around. Also, I have become completely addicted to the level of customization that is possible with scripting.
However, I too agree with a lot of what is being said by other experienced users here. It seems like with every release, there are new features being added, but not a lot of improvements to existing features. I've tried to compensate for this by scripting my own tools to get around some of the software's limitations, but it does take a lot of time that I could otherwise be spending creating animations.
While I do see the importance of adding new features to stay competitive with similar software and attract new users, I think that improving the existing features is also of vital importance for keeping existing users and helping with word of mouth advertising.
If a lot of users aren't upgrading, it might be because they are pretty certain that version 9 will be released in a year and they're thinking, "well version 7 works fine for me at the moment, and I really don't have any real need for a character wizard or auto image tracer in my workflow, so I may as well wait a year and see what the next version offers."
What I would love to see is Smith Micro adopt a 2 year cycle where they release a new major version of the software every 2 years instead of every year. After they released a new version they would then spend the time in between releasing minor versions which would add improvements to the existing features based on user feedback.
Thanks for asking for our opinions.
I will always upgrade without fail as I can see the potential in this software to be the greatest 2D animation software around. Also, I have become completely addicted to the level of customization that is possible with scripting.
However, I too agree with a lot of what is being said by other experienced users here. It seems like with every release, there are new features being added, but not a lot of improvements to existing features. I've tried to compensate for this by scripting my own tools to get around some of the software's limitations, but it does take a lot of time that I could otherwise be spending creating animations.
While I do see the importance of adding new features to stay competitive with similar software and attract new users, I think that improving the existing features is also of vital importance for keeping existing users and helping with word of mouth advertising.
If a lot of users aren't upgrading, it might be because they are pretty certain that version 9 will be released in a year and they're thinking, "well version 7 works fine for me at the moment, and I really don't have any real need for a character wizard or auto image tracer in my workflow, so I may as well wait a year and see what the next version offers."
What I would love to see is Smith Micro adopt a 2 year cycle where they release a new major version of the software every 2 years instead of every year. After they released a new version they would then spend the time in between releasing minor versions which would add improvements to the existing features based on user feedback.
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digitalartguru
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:15 am
Hi Dale,AmigaMan wrote:Hi Tori,
I have upgraded but mainly to support development and, hopefully, keep Anime Studio a viable product for Smith Micro. Unfortunately I don't feel that those of us that do upgrade year after year are rewarded for our loyalty. The new features were, for me, not very exciting at all and had it not been for the above reasons I don't think I would have upgraded this time.
There are features asked for often that seem to be ignored and I think it will only be a matter of time before users, especially more serious one's, if not give up on the software altogether (as it is still excellent) do stop upgrading as there's not really much point.
Dale
You nailed this one! This is exactly how I think a lot of people feel. You summarized it very well. If we don't voice our concerns and keep paying for minimal upgrades, things will never change. I don't mind paying for good software, but I will only do it if Smith Micro starts listening and start implementing user requests and also start releasing FULL upgrades with well implemented new features.
Tori, we want to be on your side. We want Anime Studio to do well and be around for years to come, but Smith Micro needs to get their act together. I say this will all due respect as constructive criticism. We do want to make Anime Studio a better product!
My two cents!