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General Moho topics.

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AmigaMan
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Post by AmigaMan »

Y2Jussi - Strange...the serial number was with the download on Content Paradise. You should email SM and enquire about yours.

Kitsune Kowai - most of your 'points' are a matter of opinion. The drawing tools are excellent in AS in my opinion. The rendering is fast enough for me. Come on...most people would render out each shot separately and compile in editing software anyway so your other points aren't valid etc etc

I'm not surprised you can get a Maya upgrade for 50% of the full license price (50% of several thousand dollars is quite a lot of dosh!) as the latest version was full of bugs and still has features broken from several versions ago. I use it every day :D But I'm not going to get into a software argument.

As Vilma said, nobody is forcing you to do anything so buy it if you want, don't if you aren't happy. Simple. That's all I'm going to say.
Ttomak
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Post by Ttomak »

Y2Jussi wrote:How long does it take to get the serial number for ASP6? I bought ASP6 upgrade yesterday from www.smithmicro.com and they e-mailed me this message:
"Since this is a new version of the product the serial numbers will be issued to you very soon. In the meantime please use the demo mode feature. It is good for 30 days. The serial numbers will be assigned to you in the next couple of hours."
Over 24 hours have passed already. I thought the serial would be almost instantly generated.
You should send them a message asking for an update about it. I know that the Smith Micro site was having some technical difficulties yesterday.

EDIT: Umm, what AmigaMan just said ^_^
Y2Jussi
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Post by Y2Jussi »

I actually emailed them twice yesterday and then got the reply that I quoted. Maybe one more email would do the trick if they had technical difficulties yesterday.

*update* The Serial number was sent to me while writing this message here. Bringing my problems to public forum seemed to help 8)
Last edited by Y2Jussi on Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vilma
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Post by Vilma »

Kitsune Kowai wrote:While Vilma is willing to pay $129 for her/his growing customer base and things the "community" needs, I would care more for things like being able to make reels longer than a few 1000 frames at a time, decent drawing tools, faster rendering-times or better semi-3D tools; that would be worth to me maybe $60 or $80 or so, maybe.. but charging more than 70% of the price of new software for a minor upgrade is ridiculous.
With an Adobe product an upgrade will cost you about 25-30% of the new price, with ToonboomStudio ($399) an upgrade from V4 to V5 will cost you $99 , and Autodesk (maya and muddbox) has announced; "After March 15, 2010, your upgrade from any of the three previous software releases will cost 50 percent of the price of a new license, no matter which release you own."
I think Vilma's community would be better of with some more common economic sense instead of some more users.
Aww come on.. The softwares you're comparing AS to have a solid, very large and steady customer base - they can afford to give 70% discount because of that alone. The fact is - AS full version is still a LOT cheaper than theirs. if you're do dissatisfied why don't you go and buy the ToonBoom and enjoy the cheaper upgrades years after.

I always think of buying a product as sponsoring. I buy things that I like to see prosper. AS is a great software - and I think it's worth the money. I don't have dollars growing in my backyard either but if I really want something - I will think of a way to get it.

And one more thing about that comment on "my" community. If you get users buy the product only because you sell cheap and not because you have a great product - then you don't have a very good community - do you?
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windstormer
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Post by windstormer »

I agree Vilma.
nadafarms
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Post by nadafarms »

seriously people after I spent $1000 on ToonBoom Animate getting as6 for $169 is a walk in the park, and it's way way better for puppetry animation.

The interface makes so much more sense in AS6 and feels like an up to date software product, where 5.6 seemed really clunky and hard to understand while learning it from scratch.

I upgraded my TB Studio 4 to Animate for $499 which is 50% but still we are talking a $129 for the most powerful 2d animation software ever made. I am pretty positive I'll be making some serious cash when I start using AS6 instead of Flash for clients. So getting this $169 or $129 back from my work will happen real quick.

I can understand frustration if you're a broke hobbyist and you saved up all your money to get 5.6 two months ago. :(

but stop whining. We are super lucky that AS6 is out and that Anime Studio didn't dissapear. I'm extremely thankful for AS6 and this great forum and people like the Vern guy and grey kid for all their awesome work paving the way for us.
8)
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Kankuran
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Post by Kankuran »

I too agree with Vilma. Many people want AS to become the main tool of digital 2D animation, still they are not willing to pay the money. This seems like a software that could stand or fall with the sales report. So why not just buy the program, use it and feel good about contributing to a better program, or forget about it and try classic animation (I promise, it is a lot cheaper and you will save a lot of time aswell :wink: )

I do understand if you recently bought the program without getting a better deal, but then at least you have 5.6, and many of us have made great work with that program. It wont make your animations worse, it only hurts you a little bit that you don´t have the latest, coolest, hippest, strongest and most trendy version.
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Kankuran
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Post by Kankuran »

nadafarms wrote: and people like the Vern guy and grey kid for all their awesome work paving the way for us.
8)
Haha, the Vern guy, that was quite funny.
Great nickname.
Kitsune Kowai
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Post by Kitsune Kowai »

I see, so you are a sponsor of things you like to see prosper; well I am only a buyer of professional software for professional use who is comparing an upgrade for a product with any other upgrade for any other product I need for my profession: should I use an expensive car, machine or any other tool for my work, I would understand that a part or an upgrade could cost as much or more as a cheaper car,machine,tool on it's own, but when the producer of this cheaper product tells me this new part or upgrade would cost me >70% of the new product with the argument their customer base is not solid or steady enough, I will laugh with them and call it a rip-off ,no mater how satisfied I might be with their product. And where a company like SmithMirco would get their discounts (and I really don't think a lower price would be a discount) is really not my concern or care: they need sponsoring indeed, I quote;
"Smith Micro Software Reports 2009 First Quarter Financial Results Revenues Increase 9% to a First Quarter Record $23.8 Million First Quarter EPS of $0.01 GAAP, $0.13 Non-GAAP
May 06, 2009
Aliso Viejo, CA -- Smith Micro Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: SMSI), a leading developer and marketer of software solutions and services for the mobility market, today reported financial results for its 2009 first quarter ending March 31, 2009. "I am pleased to report another solid financial performance for our first quarter of 2009, which included achieving record Q1 revenue of $23.8 million, an increase of 9% year-over-year", said William W. Smith Jr., President and CEO of Smith Micro Software, Inc.

And BTW, Amigaman, I WAS talking about rendering times for one shot separatly, and yes my PC is more than fast and yes, I've been making computer-animation since DeluxePaint too, so thank you for the free lessons and no I'm not specialy dissatisfied with the speed, I was only giving a few random examples of usefull upgrades, as opposed to stuff to attract more kiddie-customers.
AmigaMan wrote: Kitsune Kowai - most of your 'points' are a matter of opinion. The drawing tools are excellent in AS in my opinion. The rendering is fast enough for me. Come on...most people would render out each shot separately and compile in editing software anyway so your other points aren't valid etc etc

I'm not surprised you can get a Maya upgrade for 50% of the full license price (50% of several thousand dollars is quite a lot of dosh!) as the latest version was full of bugs and still has features broken from several versions ago. I use it every day :D But I'm not going to get into a software argument.

As Vilma said, nobody is forcing you to do anything so buy it if you want, don't if you aren't happy. Simple. That's all I'm going to say.
Vilma wrote:
Aww come on.. The softwares you're comparing AS to have a solid, very large and steady customer base - they can afford to give 70% discount because of that alone. The fact is - AS full version is still a LOT cheaper than theirs. if you're do dissatisfied why don't you go and buy the ToonBoom and enjoy the cheaper upgrades years after.

I always think of buying a product as sponsoring. I buy things that I like to see prosper. AS is a great software - and I think it's worth the money. I don't have dollars growing in my backyard either but if I really want something - I will think of a way to get it.

And one more thing about that comment on "my" community. If you get users buy the product only because you sell cheap and not because you have a great product - then you don't have a very good community - do you?
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windstormer
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Post by windstormer »

Than this is all good. A good solid company, a good solid PROFESSIONAL product, as seen with Freakish Kid and others. Upgrades were great at a fair price. I'm happy. :D
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Rhoel
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Post by Rhoel »

Kankuran wrote:Many people want AS to become the main tool of digital 2D animation
Whilst it might seem at odds, the 'troll ' agrees with Vilma and Kankuran on this.

The situation is something of an iceberg for some of us here who have other commercial interests allied to AsP - some have pro-web sites either launched or in final stages of beta, or other service industries related tools: Certainly I wouldn't be working on an online PMS system (php, javascript and MySQL back office) if I didn't have confidence in Mike and ASP.

Barring any major disasters, I'm finished bitching about SM and I'm returning to my computer to work on the new toys - even built a new machine today just for it - XP with SP3 and very fast processor.

Rhoel
Last edited by Rhoel on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vilma
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Post by Vilma »

I will write one more thing and then I'm through. I'm not saying you don't have valid points but you're looking at it from different perspective.

Personally I don't care how much revenue they do. I'm fully aware that the company makes a lot of money and I surely didn't mean by sponsoring a product in a way that you would sponsor a kids' football team. I give my money to keep the product in development.

Do you really think that SM would grow as big as it has without a careful business planning? Do you have any idea how cruel business world is? Believe me - they follow carefully on how every productline manages on it's own. SM does have other products as well - their revenue does not come out of AS alone.
If they notice that one product is not making enough money to keep the development going on profitably - they aren't going to sponsor the users (us) because "it's the right thing to do". They might want to try hard to make it work because they like the product but in the longrun..

I mean, why on earth would people keep buying expensive softwares like ToonBoom in the first place unless they were good. Having a cheap software is a one way of saying that this software isn't professional and we don't believe in it - it's meant for the hobbyists and casual users. Why would any serious software developer aim to be the cheapest yet the best around? You won't go very far with that thinking. Do you yourself give away your work for discount? Is that how you get customers? Not because people trust your skills - but because you're the cheapest around? Think about it.. not very profitable.

Companies don't run on goodwill. And I'm certainly not trying to cheat anyone to think that SM is anything else than it is. AS is there as long as it has serious users. Serious users are willing to spend money to buy a product they want to work with. Hobbyists want it cheap or free. You don't attract serious users with a cheap price tag. Serious user will try a software and buy it if they're satisfied.
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Magnatude
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Post by Magnatude »

(Ok I'll repost what I stated to SM)

A new person wanting ASP6 will fork out $199 thats cool

However, we users who already forked out (for me it was $150) for ASP 5.6 plus now they ask $129 for the upgrade. Thats $280 out of my pocket to buy v6.


If you look at it from that perspective, you can see why some feel put out for the upgrade price.

Me? I'm still busy getting my money's worth out of my initial purchase of 5.6 so I don't plan on upgrading until waay, later. Perhaps then all the bugs are all worked out and a lot of cool scripts will be created for 6.

I dont care, I'm not interested in upgrading now, but I do understand the gripe that some are taking.


Edit:
It could be worse tho... I'm a former truespace user. A lot of people bought truespace 7.1 and the support package for about $1500. Months later Microsoft buys Caligari and suddenly truespace 7.6 is FREE. I feel so sorry for those people who purchased it. (I was very nearly one of those people)
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AniPierre
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Post by AniPierre »

Hey Magnatude,

What's especially sad about Truespace is that Microsoft has decided to drop the product altogether. So, it seems that Truespace is now officially a dead product. See the link for more information.

http://www.caligari.com/News/news_20090 ... under.html

I've been playing with Truespace for years and I even had Caligari 24 for my Amiga many years ago. It's sad to see a great piece of software and a true labor of love being phased out. I have no gripes against Microsoft in general but I feel awfully bad for Roman Ormandy and all his years of hard work.

I definately intend to upgrade as soon as I can afford it so that the same fate doesn't befall Anime Studio.
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InfoCentral
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Post by InfoCentral »

AniPierre wrote:I definately intend to upgrade as soon as I can afford it so that the same fate doesn't befall Anime Studio.
If I were Smith Micro I would definitely be listening to the Pro user base here. Most of the posters are perfectly happy paying the inflated asking price for the upgrade. As a matter of fact I would go so far as to say they feel somewhat patriotic doing so. Like their doing their duty and helping keep the program and software going.

Listening, Smith Micro should assist the community in continuing to feel purpose and fulfillment by instituting an annual subscription plan just like Hash has done with Animation Master. This way Smith Micro can obtain a constant cash stream to develop and maintain Anime Studio and the community will continue to feel involved and supportive. Its a win-win situation!
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