I was IMing with a friend who works for an animation company, and he said that he was going to Annecy this year to see "the demo of the Toonboom-killer." He's been told by his bosses to check it out. He wouldn't say much more than that, except it's a new product release that will wipe the floor with Toonboom, even their new Animate Pro (forget Studio).
Now Annecy is in two weeks and the timing is perfect. So my question is, will someone be demoing ASP6 there? And if so, is it secret or can anyone go?
ASP6: the Annecy "Toonboom killer" I hear about?
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Boy, I'd love to think that AS is that product, but trying to be realistic here I kind of doubt it.
For one thing, unless the Pro version is VERY different (and it could be -- I'm really, really hoping so) I don't see any of the tools that are really needed in production by the TB crowd. The libraries, file management, workgroup flow, all the stuff that makes it possible to manage your resources outside of the animation process still seem to be missing.
But, as I said, perhaps the Pro version has all this. That would certainly make a lot more sense than the inclusion of audio handling stuff inside of AS (who needs AS to be an NLE in a production environment? Everyone in such an environment already HAS an NLE and one that is far far better. I would really hope that it was added AFTER Mike took the time to put in a hefty resource management system inside of Pro but forgive me if my natural skepticism says otherwise).
But, Chucky, it doesn't surprise me that you have those feelings (although it's extremely rare to see a TB user post them. I've demoed all versions of TB (including DP) and it's the most cumbersome, unintuitive thing I've ever seen. If I had to use it for a living I think I'd go into another line of business <g>.
For one thing, unless the Pro version is VERY different (and it could be -- I'm really, really hoping so) I don't see any of the tools that are really needed in production by the TB crowd. The libraries, file management, workgroup flow, all the stuff that makes it possible to manage your resources outside of the animation process still seem to be missing.
But, as I said, perhaps the Pro version has all this. That would certainly make a lot more sense than the inclusion of audio handling stuff inside of AS (who needs AS to be an NLE in a production environment? Everyone in such an environment already HAS an NLE and one that is far far better. I would really hope that it was added AFTER Mike took the time to put in a hefty resource management system inside of Pro but forgive me if my natural skepticism says otherwise).
But, Chucky, it doesn't surprise me that you have those feelings (although it's extremely rare to see a TB user post them. I've demoed all versions of TB (including DP) and it's the most cumbersome, unintuitive thing I've ever seen. If I had to use it for a living I think I'd go into another line of business <g>.
I hear what you're saying, Mike, and looking at the other threads, it does seem like ASP6 is more ASP5.7 with a jazzed-up interface, BUT we don't know the entire PRO feature set yet, so part of me lives in hope.
Anyway, the only other information I could get about the Toonboom killer is that it IS a new version of already existing software, it's not something completely new. Which kinda makes sense, and also still doesn't discount ASP6.
And if this new product ISN'T ASP6, then I wouldn't like to be in Toonboom's shoes, because they'll have TWO rivals now.
Anyway, the only other information I could get about the Toonboom killer is that it IS a new version of already existing software, it's not something completely new. Which kinda makes sense, and also still doesn't discount ASP6.
And if this new product ISN'T ASP6, then I wouldn't like to be in Toonboom's shoes, because they'll have TWO rivals now.
Animestudio is the killer of toonboom. It's current feature set is and has been above average, with bones and much more. And just look at youtube.com and do a search for AnimeStudio. And that's only one video site.
Anywho toonboom is good for traditional animation and even has added new features, to make animation life easier. But AnimeStudio kept the price low and therefor more hobbiest were able to afford it. And that's something that any software company should keep in mind. As high priced software leads to more cracking and a cheaper competitor to take the business.
Anywho toonboom is good for traditional animation and even has added new features, to make animation life easier. But AnimeStudio kept the price low and therefor more hobbiest were able to afford it. And that's something that any software company should keep in mind. As high priced software leads to more cracking and a cheaper competitor to take the business.
I am no fan of TB but I cannot see AS being the TB killer, producers are too stuck in their ways, I can see many enthusiasts getting stuck in, but TB is for pros in production, even with all its flaws, I think but for a handful of innovators TB will hold up against AS in the pro market.
Once the drawing tools are really spruced up, that cold day in hell may come to pass, but with current development money going to TB from the many studios all buying many many licences, TB isn't about to relinquish its grip on the higher market end without a fight.
I wish AS all the best anyway.
Once the drawing tools are really spruced up, that cold day in hell may come to pass, but with current development money going to TB from the many studios all buying many many licences, TB isn't about to relinquish its grip on the higher market end without a fight.
I wish AS all the best anyway.
AS 6 is most definitely NOT "AS 5.7 with a jazzed up interface". You guys have to use it first before you can judge. this is AS 6. It might even be AS 6.5 but I don't know how those numbers are determined.The400th wrote:I hear what you're saying, Mike, and looking at the other threads, it does seem like ASP6 is more ASP5.7 with a jazzed-up interface,
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As for a "Toonboom" killer. I have to agree it's up to the individuals needs and preferences. From what I can tell TB is a totally different product from AS. Yes the end results are "similar"... "2d animation"... but the techniques used to get there are different.
It's like... buying a Mac or a PC. Both go on the internet. Both have productivity tools, but they are as different as apples and oranges. So a Toonboom "killer" would have to be JUST LIKE TOONBOOM with "more stuff" that is easier to do.
A TB killer would have to appeal to TB users.
-vern
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Farbklecks
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:50 pm
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
I think lots of anime is done using RETAS.
Vern, don't stir, you know the comparison is nuttin' like mac /pc, the difference is actually far greater than that, which why the os argument is so amusing and pointless.
No one could actually argue that macs are toys, unfortunately ASPRO has always suffered from a reluctance to use from the more pro/ arty sectors of the animating world.
Vern, I know you have had the scripting features of AS opened up for you and the few and you may see other features as gravy but to others here the real meat is in tangible features like the new timeline and shading/ preview improvement.
They are truly marble-ous improvements
Don't get me wrong I really love all the stuff you genete synth and slice et al do but lua isn't drawing or colouring, which is how we make the images look nice- quickly.
Too many users here seem to suffer from colour blindness lack of drawing skills or are style challenged, probably because AS isn't attracting enough of the really fine drafts-people and ambitious film makers.
Taking the clunk out of artistic image production to animate that has been the side to AS that actually has needed the most work, though it really wouldn't take much to improve it tenfold and really become a killer app.
Can lua scripting improve that? Do I have to learn it in order to improve the pencil tool alittle and perhaps even add an eraser?
Can it provide a solution for line gaps and the like?
Please let it be so, but I can't see myself learning lua, I'm too busy trying to draw properly.
There are absolute necessities, like improved drawing features and outline rendering, so if Mike ever wants to test the next version,I'll certainly like to help out. Vern, you got your goodies, maybe the pen users could get a look in, some day.
Vern, don't stir, you know the comparison is nuttin' like mac /pc, the difference is actually far greater than that, which why the os argument is so amusing and pointless.
No one could actually argue that macs are toys, unfortunately ASPRO has always suffered from a reluctance to use from the more pro/ arty sectors of the animating world.
Vern, I know you have had the scripting features of AS opened up for you and the few and you may see other features as gravy but to others here the real meat is in tangible features like the new timeline and shading/ preview improvement.
They are truly marble-ous improvements
Don't get me wrong I really love all the stuff you genete synth and slice et al do but lua isn't drawing or colouring, which is how we make the images look nice- quickly.
Too many users here seem to suffer from colour blindness lack of drawing skills or are style challenged, probably because AS isn't attracting enough of the really fine drafts-people and ambitious film makers.
Taking the clunk out of artistic image production to animate that has been the side to AS that actually has needed the most work, though it really wouldn't take much to improve it tenfold and really become a killer app.
Can lua scripting improve that? Do I have to learn it in order to improve the pencil tool alittle and perhaps even add an eraser?
Can it provide a solution for line gaps and the like?
Please let it be so, but I can't see myself learning lua, I'm too busy trying to draw properly.
There are absolute necessities, like improved drawing features and outline rendering, so if Mike ever wants to test the next version,I'll certainly like to help out. Vern, you got your goodies, maybe the pen users could get a look in, some day.
Chucky,
I think you got the wrong idea. Scripting was not a focus for AS 6. Most or all of the scripting features were done and locked in by the time I was involved.
I had ZERO influence on script features during beta testing. None... nada... zippo... zero. I was testing the "real" features. I didn't test scripting during the beta (except a new bone tool I created and the save/load bone layer script). I didn't have time during the beta to spend on scripting. It would be like "beta testing a beta test while beta testing". It would have taken too much time.
Mike was able to put in some new script features but not as many as the scripters here hoped or asked for. They went with what you said, "tangible" features. I am excited about what WAS added for scripting because though they were not what I asked for specifically or expected they are still powerful additions. Mike added as much as he could. Remember they decided on what features would be added long before I or other beta testers got involved.
The new features ARE VERY tangible. They are features that will speed up productivity. They will increase what can be done with AS. They will require less need for other applications to get work done.
-vern
I think you got the wrong idea. Scripting was not a focus for AS 6. Most or all of the scripting features were done and locked in by the time I was involved.
I had ZERO influence on script features during beta testing. None... nada... zippo... zero. I was testing the "real" features. I didn't test scripting during the beta (except a new bone tool I created and the save/load bone layer script). I didn't have time during the beta to spend on scripting. It would be like "beta testing a beta test while beta testing". It would have taken too much time.
Mike was able to put in some new script features but not as many as the scripters here hoped or asked for. They went with what you said, "tangible" features. I am excited about what WAS added for scripting because though they were not what I asked for specifically or expected they are still powerful additions. Mike added as much as he could. Remember they decided on what features would be added long before I or other beta testers got involved.
The new features ARE VERY tangible. They are features that will speed up productivity. They will increase what can be done with AS. They will require less need for other applications to get work done.
-vern
Last edited by heyvern on Fri May 29, 2009 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jackismyazz
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 11:18 am
No, I think this refers to the "Scripts/Menu" folder. This is sort of like "plugins" but is the same as before. There is a script resources folder for images. So there can be icons for the tool properties at the top of the document window.jackismyazz wrote:someone mentioned that there's a plugin folder available in script menu does that means script writers can create special fx such as blur, zoom blur directional blur etc?
-vern
Thanks for your reply Vern.
I am very positive about the new release and I wasn't being sarcastic in my post (for a change).
I didn't actually think that you were scripting on the 6, but I did assume that greater scripting access has been implemented but perhaps drawing tools might have been off the list.
I probably speak too soon, I know many features have been mentioned in the what's in 6 posts where ones that I (amongst others) had included as feature requests, for that I am very appreciative.
I also admit that my feature requests probably didn't have enough emphasis on the drawing tool, I don't know why I never saw that eraser suggested.
I guess if I think about it, an eraser would probably be rather easy to script for those who can speak the language,
Vern BTW since we are only hearing about debut ATM as far as I can tell, do you know any of the PRO features that will shut me up?
I am very positive about the new release and I wasn't being sarcastic in my post (for a change).
I didn't actually think that you were scripting on the 6, but I did assume that greater scripting access has been implemented but perhaps drawing tools might have been off the list.
I probably speak too soon, I know many features have been mentioned in the what's in 6 posts where ones that I (amongst others) had included as feature requests, for that I am very appreciative.
I also admit that my feature requests probably didn't have enough emphasis on the drawing tool, I don't know why I never saw that eraser suggested.
I guess if I think about it, an eraser would probably be rather easy to script for those who can speak the language,
Vern BTW since we are only hearing about debut ATM as far as I can tell, do you know any of the PRO features that will shut me up?
Last edited by chucky on Fri May 29, 2009 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.