While I'm glad to be proven wrong (and I *am* glad, although there's still a part of me that says I'll believe they have a Pro version when I see it -- without that version this still isn't a 6.0 update) the rollout of this upgrade as well as the pricing makes me believe that SM doesn't really care at all about existing customers.
I would have paid twice what the Pro version will cost, but that doesn't mean I think it's fair -- I can't think of a single other product I've *ever* owned where the upgrade to the next version was 75% or more of the original price.
The only mitigating circumstances I can see is that this upgrade took a while, that SM is trying to recover development costs, that this is the first upgrade for SM, etc. etc. But all of those reasons are due to the company and not to the loyal customers (who would have bought an update *much* earlier).
To put it another way -- just how long would SM last if they put out a yearly update costing this much? How many of you would be able to afford that? (I can and would, but I don't see AS customer's base as being more typical of me and my situation).
And the rollout is almost unconscionable -- Mike alone should be ashamed. Forget SM for a moment -- Mike knows about this forum (didn't he start it? Isn't he still admin?), he most certainly knew about the release date (or at least knew how close it was) and even under the most strict NDA could have hinted something to us here. Unless he's suffering from a serious illness or SM pulled a fast one on him (in which case I humbly apologize) he's one of the biggest rats I've ever known in the programming business (a business fairly well known for its rats -- I knew Billy G. way back when and he was one of the bigger ones).
And unless I was dreaming I could have sworn Mike wrote something on these boards about wanting beta testers when he got to a certain stage -- now, that doesn't mean that didn't happen, but reading between the lines here I get the feeling Vern didn't beta and if HE didn't then something is very wrong.
So... I'll buy the upgrade (I may actually buy another full copy since I've been holding off doing so until a new release -- good thing, right? -- as I want to use this on my laptop as well and I do play by the rules) and I'm sure I'll love the software but I'm also equally sure I now hate the company and perhaps those who work on this program as well.
I'm confused! (Anime studio 6)
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
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slice11217
- Posts: 279
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I agree with you Mkelley all the way up to the part about Mike being a rat. I'll still give him some credit; I would need further proof about the rat thing. His hands are very likely tied on a lot of this, and I can also understand that he just wants to provide for his family.
Still.... in a fantasy ideal world, it would be rockin' if he pulled his license away from SM and ran things the way he used to until an e-frontier-ish company came and picked him up again!
Mkelley, you were far more eloquent in your description of the situation than I possibly could have been. -I wonder how long Adobe would've lasted if they'd handled Photoshop and Illustrator in a similar manner when they were just starting out? We'd probably all be using Freehand and whatever Macromedia's photo editing software was right now instead.
Still.... in a fantasy ideal world, it would be rockin' if he pulled his license away from SM and ran things the way he used to until an e-frontier-ish company came and picked him up again!
Mkelley, you were far more eloquent in your description of the situation than I possibly could have been. -I wonder how long Adobe would've lasted if they'd handled Photoshop and Illustrator in a similar manner when they were just starting out? We'd probably all be using Freehand and whatever Macromedia's photo editing software was right now instead.
Last edited by slice11217 on Wed May 27, 2009 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is really inrcredible is that AS 5 (standard and PRO) still being announced to be sold at the official SM website. Poor people who buy the PRO one and found that it is already obsolete!.
-G
-G
Last edited by Genete on Wed May 27, 2009 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mkelley, Woah, take it easy, fella'.
There is no way Mike can be held responsible, I will personally vouch that he is helpful and loyal to us here on the forum.
He did after all personally ask for our feature requests, and has been in touch with many here on a one to one basis.
If SM released this without warning, the fault probably falls to their webmaster or should I say webnoob who runs their lame site plus some middle management snooze boozers who couldn't give a rat's.
Let's just admit it we are all just overexcited about this release and feel like that kid at xmas who hasn't got their prezzy yet.......
EDIT:
There is no way Mike can be held responsible, I will personally vouch that he is helpful and loyal to us here on the forum.
He did after all personally ask for our feature requests, and has been in touch with many here on a one to one basis.
If SM released this without warning, the fault probably falls to their webmaster or should I say webnoob who runs their lame site plus some middle management snooze boozers who couldn't give a rat's.
Let's just admit it we are all just overexcited about this release and feel like that kid at xmas who hasn't got their prezzy yet.......
EDIT:
It is pretty common practise for customers of most software vendors who purchase within a month of release to get a free upgrade....Poor people who buy the PRO one and found that it is already obsolete!.
-G
Everybody breathe in and breathe out. Relax, stay calm.
Calling Mike a rat is about as unfair as it gets. This man single-handedly wrote Moho, ran its website and did the support until he no longer could do so because it wasn't financially viable.
Every other person would have stopped developing their software at that point. Plenty of abandon-ware around to prove that point. But he kept going on, resulting in what we now know as Anime Studio/ Anime Studio Pro.
As for the reason why he hasn't come in here and talked to us about this release, look at this quote from Mike last year:
Even I feel a bit hurt hearing the word "rat". Imagine what it must be like for the man himself. Please think before you post.
Calling Mike a rat is about as unfair as it gets. This man single-handedly wrote Moho, ran its website and did the support until he no longer could do so because it wasn't financially viable.
Every other person would have stopped developing their software at that point. Plenty of abandon-ware around to prove that point. But he kept going on, resulting in what we now know as Anime Studio/ Anime Studio Pro.
As for the reason why he hasn't come in here and talked to us about this release, look at this quote from Mike last year:
In my book, the fact that AS/ASP still exists is a small miracle. We should be grateful and celebrate this.Lost Marble wrote:Unfortunately, I'm no longer speaking as "just myself", but now as part of the company. This means I can't always speak freely. Hopefully I'll get a clearer understanding of what kinds of things I can say, but for now I think I'll just avoid specific questions.
It's not that companies don't like to communicate with customers. But suppose a company says that product A is going to be released on date B for a price of C dollars. This could cause people to go out and buy or sell stock, and then if A, B, or C changes, you've opened yourself up to lawsuits and all kinds of nastiness.
Even I feel a bit hurt hearing the word "rat". Imagine what it must be like for the man himself. Please think before you post.
Sorry, Chucky, but I *won't* cut him some slack. Unlike a lot of folks here, I've been in *exactly* Mike's position, and I think I know thereof of what I speak.
You don't screw your loyal customers, ever. That's just first and foremost a way to conduct principled business. Now, not everyone is principled, but I can promise you that Mike knew this release was coming, and thus could have at least hinted so here, and that not doing so showed a callous disregard for those who have supported him for so long.
(Let me construct just ONE scenerio -- if Mike was in touch with some of you privately, he could have hinted what was happening so that it could come third party. There's certainly at least one or two folks he could trust to that end. As I said, no matter what his NDA is, he could always say to SM it wasn't him and with no way to prove otherwise they couldn't do anything to him. That he didn't even take this way out seems ratlike in the extreme).
It isn't just that this release came out of the blue -- it's much bigger than that. Loyal customers should be courted, and doing so doesn't take a whole lot of effort. I know all of you know this because we're ALL being courted by everyone we ever bought software from. Heck, I get regular emails from SmartSound about upcoming software and releases and the only thing I ever did was download their demo. I feel like those guys are keeping me in the loop FAR more than Mike and Co.
You keep your customers in the loop (unless you're simply selling game software) because professionals have to do all kinds of things ordinary folks don't. For one thing, we need to budget items and expenses for the year. For another, we have productions we need to keep on track and while it's foolish to switch versions in mid-production there may be things that are being done at great time and expense that will be far easier in newer versions. All this takes advance planning and manpower and companies that make software to be used by professionals know this.
This thing smacks of some amateur third rate software product -- not something I could even *slightly* compare to ToonBoom. It's a kid in the basement sort of release tactic -- it shows up at Wal-Mart for God's sake, with no notice on the official web site or forum. Just how are you going to sell AS as a serious production tool to anyone on that basis? (Hey, you guys using AS -- just stop by Wal-Mart on the way home and see if the new release is out yet).
I don't have to like people to use their software. It's business, not personal. I use Windows and I *know* what a rat BG is from personal experience. I will probably love this update when I can get it, and I'll be as gung ho an AS person as anyone can be. It's going to be a little hard to take it seriously when the company is so Mickey Mouse But make no mistake about it -- everyone here was dissed pretty dramatically by everyone (and I mean everyone) who has anything at all to do with this product.
You don't screw your loyal customers, ever. That's just first and foremost a way to conduct principled business. Now, not everyone is principled, but I can promise you that Mike knew this release was coming, and thus could have at least hinted so here, and that not doing so showed a callous disregard for those who have supported him for so long.
(Let me construct just ONE scenerio -- if Mike was in touch with some of you privately, he could have hinted what was happening so that it could come third party. There's certainly at least one or two folks he could trust to that end. As I said, no matter what his NDA is, he could always say to SM it wasn't him and with no way to prove otherwise they couldn't do anything to him. That he didn't even take this way out seems ratlike in the extreme).
It isn't just that this release came out of the blue -- it's much bigger than that. Loyal customers should be courted, and doing so doesn't take a whole lot of effort. I know all of you know this because we're ALL being courted by everyone we ever bought software from. Heck, I get regular emails from SmartSound about upcoming software and releases and the only thing I ever did was download their demo. I feel like those guys are keeping me in the loop FAR more than Mike and Co.
You keep your customers in the loop (unless you're simply selling game software) because professionals have to do all kinds of things ordinary folks don't. For one thing, we need to budget items and expenses for the year. For another, we have productions we need to keep on track and while it's foolish to switch versions in mid-production there may be things that are being done at great time and expense that will be far easier in newer versions. All this takes advance planning and manpower and companies that make software to be used by professionals know this.
This thing smacks of some amateur third rate software product -- not something I could even *slightly* compare to ToonBoom. It's a kid in the basement sort of release tactic -- it shows up at Wal-Mart for God's sake, with no notice on the official web site or forum. Just how are you going to sell AS as a serious production tool to anyone on that basis? (Hey, you guys using AS -- just stop by Wal-Mart on the way home and see if the new release is out yet).
I don't have to like people to use their software. It's business, not personal. I use Windows and I *know* what a rat BG is from personal experience. I will probably love this update when I can get it, and I'll be as gung ho an AS person as anyone can be. It's going to be a little hard to take it seriously when the company is so Mickey Mouse But make no mistake about it -- everyone here was dissed pretty dramatically by everyone (and I mean everyone) who has anything at all to do with this product.
Yeah, I'm excited about the new software - but, damn... I am livid at the way this was handled!
Seriously. Think about this for a second.
We all found out about the latest Anime Studio Version because somebody happened across it at Wal-Mart...
I could scream.
When I look at all the talent and hard work and dedication on this forum... and not to even get a post, and e-mail, a carrier pidgin... Nothing!
It's like they're treating ASP as joke software!
I've gotten two, count 'em, two e-mail blasts from Toon Boom on their Studio 5 product alone - not counting their monthly newsletter and other blasts on Animate Pro. I can tell you everything they're doing and I don't even own a Toon Boom product!!!
Attn: Smith Micro Marketing. I'll build it if you send it! Don't make a mockery out of my baby! This is your bread and butter audience here!!
#$%@ing Wal-Mart... I mean... he wasn't even LOOKING for it!
#$%^
EDIT: lol, great minds think alike mkelley...
Seriously. Think about this for a second.
We all found out about the latest Anime Studio Version because somebody happened across it at Wal-Mart...
I could scream.
When I look at all the talent and hard work and dedication on this forum... and not to even get a post, and e-mail, a carrier pidgin... Nothing!
It's like they're treating ASP as joke software!
I've gotten two, count 'em, two e-mail blasts from Toon Boom on their Studio 5 product alone - not counting their monthly newsletter and other blasts on Animate Pro. I can tell you everything they're doing and I don't even own a Toon Boom product!!!
Attn: Smith Micro Marketing. I'll build it if you send it! Don't make a mockery out of my baby! This is your bread and butter audience here!!
#$%@ing Wal-Mart... I mean... he wasn't even LOOKING for it!
#$%^
EDIT: lol, great minds think alike mkelley...
Last edited by Johnny on Wed May 27, 2009 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I totally agree, Manu, Mike is a legend in my book and when I tell people how good his ASPRO is, I always add a note about Mike and his personal touch that makes the program and therefore even the community here to be so much more vital than soggy old ToonBoom.Even I feel a bit hurt hearing the word "rat". Imagine what it must be like for the man himself. Please think before you post.
Hurray for Mike and his awesome upgrade....THANKS MIKE!
You should put a rocket up SM for how they have munged this release.EDIT: Hey Wes, keep though screenies commin' eh? It might keep us desperadoes from psychosis and panic attacks.
The game with Smith Micro is money and how much they can get of each customer. Hey that is just business so I' not really angry at them. And I don't think Mike has anything to do with the way SM does business, just as when I worked for IBM, I had no input for how they handled customers.
I will buy or not buy the upgrade all according to the amount of features added. If it is mostly eye candy as ToonBoom has been, then I'm staying with what I got. But the price has a lot to do with upgrading also. If TB was only say 60 dollars to go from my current 3.5 to the current version that has some major improvements I would be upgrading.
Dale
I will buy or not buy the upgrade all according to the amount of features added. If it is mostly eye candy as ToonBoom has been, then I'm staying with what I got. But the price has a lot to do with upgrading also. If TB was only say 60 dollars to go from my current 3.5 to the current version that has some major improvements I would be upgrading.
Dale
I agree with what you are saying mkelley, except that I think that it should be directed 100% at SmithMicro and not at all at Mike. Seeing the correlation between our requests and the new features make me believe that he is absolutely committed to doing right by us. I also have all the more respect for him for not choosing to leak any info about the timing of the new release. Any announcements like that are the sole responsibility of SmithMicro and I think they really dropped the ball in that regard. I mean they really could have built up a sense of anticipation about the new release, but only users of this forum even new it was in development. It seems to me that their marketing department is practically non-existent and they really need to invest in this area as they've now got some killer products under their belt that they're just not capitalizing on.
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Víctor Paredes
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I agree, you can criticize how SM has made the things, but not Mike. Ok, he is not posting in this forum, but he made an excellent release, as far as we can see. I feel myself more listened than ever, I never feel myself part of a software, but I have saw a lot of features that actually we wrote on this forum.
You can criticize SmithMicro, personally I think they are not using the big platform which is this forum. There are a lot of people (including me) that are very grateful of AS -and there are a lot of threads here which confirm that- and people which want to help AS be better and get the attention of the distracted people who haven't took seriously yet. Personally, what make me sad is not the fact of know the release date after of a guy walking at walmart, is the fact I couldn't help to the release with much anmes as possible.
I'm glad for Mike, as much as when Moho became AS. He is not a rat for me, he is a hero -and I don't care it sounds exaggerated-. He is listen us and he answered us, not with the exclusive release, of course, but with a piece of software tailor-made for our community.
You can criticize SmithMicro, personally I think they are not using the big platform which is this forum. There are a lot of people (including me) that are very grateful of AS -and there are a lot of threads here which confirm that- and people which want to help AS be better and get the attention of the distracted people who haven't took seriously yet. Personally, what make me sad is not the fact of know the release date after of a guy walking at walmart, is the fact I couldn't help to the release with much anmes as possible.
I'm glad for Mike, as much as when Moho became AS. He is not a rat for me, he is a hero -and I don't care it sounds exaggerated-. He is listen us and he answered us, not with the exclusive release, of course, but with a piece of software tailor-made for our community.
Here's my theory...
Mike started coding the LITE version and got it done and sent it to SmithMicro. Now he's working on the PRO version. Meanwhile SmithMicro went ahead and released the LITE version. And no one knew about it until now and maybe not even Mike.
You have to remember, SmithMicro is a software reseller. They looking at cashing in and that's it while doing it all in the wrong way. This forum should have known the second it was released. There marketing sucks as we all know.
And This isn't how MOHO should be treated. I'm not calling it AnimeStudio as the name sucks and has been marketed very badly after receiving that name.
Mike started coding the LITE version and got it done and sent it to SmithMicro. Now he's working on the PRO version. Meanwhile SmithMicro went ahead and released the LITE version. And no one knew about it until now and maybe not even Mike.
You have to remember, SmithMicro is a software reseller. They looking at cashing in and that's it while doing it all in the wrong way. This forum should have known the second it was released. There marketing sucks as we all know.
And This isn't how MOHO should be treated. I'm not calling it AnimeStudio as the name sucks and has been marketed very badly after receiving that name.