Wow....Flash really stinks.
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Ah, I thought you were implying that some of the shows were created in Flash.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Anyone who wants to know what is made in Flash should check out http://www.coldhardflash.com.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Anyone who wants to know what is made in Flash should check out http://www.coldhardflash.com.
There is lots of very nice animations made in Flash! 
(Lots of kind of good to good and bad flash animations here: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/ )
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The newest version of Flash has a few new features for the artist/animator that make Flash even more usable...however Flash could pay more attention to the needs of the animator. Maybe with Adobe buying Macromedia there will be more emphasis put into improving Flash´s drawing and animation tools.
One of the nice things about Flash is the use of Scenes and the ability to include multiple sounds in the animation - which Moho currently can´t do. Flash takes a while to figure it out, but once one does it is a nice program to work with. (I am talking drawing and animating only - not the interactive coding and scripting stuff - that is way over my brain power.)
Has anybody ever used the programs Swift3D or Toon Titan with Flash to create animations?
(Lots of kind of good to good and bad flash animations here: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/ )
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The newest version of Flash has a few new features for the artist/animator that make Flash even more usable...however Flash could pay more attention to the needs of the animator. Maybe with Adobe buying Macromedia there will be more emphasis put into improving Flash´s drawing and animation tools.
One of the nice things about Flash is the use of Scenes and the ability to include multiple sounds in the animation - which Moho currently can´t do. Flash takes a while to figure it out, but once one does it is a nice program to work with. (I am talking drawing and animating only - not the interactive coding and scripting stuff - that is way over my brain power.)
Has anybody ever used the programs Swift3D or Toon Titan with Flash to create animations?
I've used swift3D to create an animation. Not a very god one, but it was an experiment of different softwares i had at the time.
Because i have an old version of swift3D (haven't been arsed to upgrade yet, as i don't use it much) and i found it very limiting unless i gained knowledge of other 3D programs... which i couldn't be arsed to learn either. So i just fiddled around with boxes and circles.
Looking at the new features of Swift though, makes it tempting to upgrade. Mainly because of the modeling feature which will hopefully make animating character easy. You can even do character turns smoothly.
Whats Toon Titan? Is it the colouring program/add on thing?
Because i have an old version of swift3D (haven't been arsed to upgrade yet, as i don't use it much) and i found it very limiting unless i gained knowledge of other 3D programs... which i couldn't be arsed to learn either. So i just fiddled around with boxes and circles.
Looking at the new features of Swift though, makes it tempting to upgrade. Mainly because of the modeling feature which will hopefully make animating character easy. You can even do character turns smoothly.
Whats Toon Titan? Is it the colouring program/add on thing?
--Scott
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I recently spoke with someone who works on "Harvey Birdman", which is animated in Flash. He said Macromedia was contacting animators and trying to get their input on a version of Flash aimed at broadcast animation, but for some reason (Adobe's buyout?) nothing came of it.
Among the things that Flash can do that Moho unfortunately can't is real-time playback with sync sound.
Features that Moho has that would be a lot more useful in Flash than they are in Moho; rotating workspace (for tracing or "inking" artwork), animated noise.
Among the things that Flash can do that Moho unfortunately can't is real-time playback with sync sound.
Features that Moho has that would be a lot more useful in Flash than they are in Moho; rotating workspace (for tracing or "inking" artwork), animated noise.
I may be wrong, but I think that rumor came about because one of the Macromedia guys went on a blog (Fwak?) and asked for input for features for Flash 8 - which has now been released. At the time everyone got excited and extrapolated that request into the (wrong) idea that a "animator-friendly" Flash was in the works.I recently spoke with someone who works on "Harvey Birdman", which is animated in Flash. He said Macromedia was contacting animators and trying to get their input on a version of Flash aimed at broadcast animation, but for some reason (Adobe's buyout?) nothing came of it.
That was way before the buyout, so I don't think that was the reason.
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Evil Sock Pupet
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(another DREAM 
)If you didn't like ToonBoom, I doubt you would like Flash. ToonBoom has a lot more animation features than Flash does.Evil Sock Pupet wrote:I never used flash but I wanna try it out cause according to a friend it it quite good. south park uses flash to animate their eposides I think. the worst animation program I have come across so far is ToomBoom but thats my opinyion. lol have a nice day.
I come from traditional animation background. pencils and paper, inks and cels. Obviously, you need to be able to draw. You can't draw, you can't animate in the old days. To people like us, just being able to draw digitally was like godsend. No more sharpening pencils, no more wasting paper, no more smelly inks and sore fingers from scraping ink off cels. More than a decade ago, I got a pen and tablet for my Amiga and I could draw and animate directly on screen. It was fantastic. When I got a 12x12 pressure sensitive wacom, and drawing on Adobe Photoshop v5, I thought it was the ultimate. To people like us, FLASH was another godsend. You could draw frame-by-frame animation in vector format and reuseability was fantastic. For once we could share our animation over the internet. AND with sync sound. You could make broadcast quality animation and play it back halfway across the world. So don't knock FLASH just b'cos you don't appreciate it. Lot's more broadcast animation are made in FLASH and it's derivatives (KOOLMOVE, TOONBOOM, ETC) than any other app I know. Count the number of books on FLASH based character animation in your local bookstore. Try to find one on MOHO.
Having said that, I've used moho since v1 and admitedly hand drawn less and less. I've chosen MOHO as my tool of choice for several reasons.
1) I'm inspired by a motto by a fellow animator using HASH ANIMATION MASTER, JEFF LEW of the "Killer Bean" fame. "One Man, One Machine, One Movie"
2) Speed. In this day and age, everyone is impatient. Everyone expects our super duper Giga Hertz 'puter to spit out animation at the push of a button.
3) B'cos of 2) above, I need to 'optimize' my animation. I need to streamline the animation process. Faster, cheaper and more efficient.
MOHO fitted the bill. It's a very streamline package and to me, it's a cross between 3D, 2D and puppeteering. The work flow is like 3D, you model, 'paint' and rig the characters for animation albeit in 2D and therein lies it's main weakness. You only have one angle of the character. To solve this problem, you need to create more angles of the various parts of the character in a switching setup. The entire workflow becomes part creative part technical as you wrestle it all in the software. It becomes as tedious and laborious as trad frame-by-frame drawing if not more. So why bother?? I do it because, I like rigging. I like setup and I also realize that a big portion of all animated production don't require difficult angles and head turns. MOHO will excel in those. But for action scenes, you just have to put in the work, the extra models, angles unless your style is like paper cut-out or south-park type.
Many (I'm suspecting majority) animators are not setup people. They are not interested in technical wrestling within the software. They just draw pose after pose, frame after frame in a straight forware simple workflow. To them FLASH is heaven sent.
So it's up to you. If you can live with the puppet look or you are a genius modeller/setup person, MOHO can be the tool of choice. If you cannot accept the rigidity of modelling based apps and you are married to your drawing skills, FLASH based app is the way to go. In any case, your animation is as good as the work you put in using your tool/app.
Happy animating.
Having said that, I've used moho since v1 and admitedly hand drawn less and less. I've chosen MOHO as my tool of choice for several reasons.
1) I'm inspired by a motto by a fellow animator using HASH ANIMATION MASTER, JEFF LEW of the "Killer Bean" fame. "One Man, One Machine, One Movie"
2) Speed. In this day and age, everyone is impatient. Everyone expects our super duper Giga Hertz 'puter to spit out animation at the push of a button.
3) B'cos of 2) above, I need to 'optimize' my animation. I need to streamline the animation process. Faster, cheaper and more efficient.
MOHO fitted the bill. It's a very streamline package and to me, it's a cross between 3D, 2D and puppeteering. The work flow is like 3D, you model, 'paint' and rig the characters for animation albeit in 2D and therein lies it's main weakness. You only have one angle of the character. To solve this problem, you need to create more angles of the various parts of the character in a switching setup. The entire workflow becomes part creative part technical as you wrestle it all in the software. It becomes as tedious and laborious as trad frame-by-frame drawing if not more. So why bother?? I do it because, I like rigging. I like setup and I also realize that a big portion of all animated production don't require difficult angles and head turns. MOHO will excel in those. But for action scenes, you just have to put in the work, the extra models, angles unless your style is like paper cut-out or south-park type.
Many (I'm suspecting majority) animators are not setup people. They are not interested in technical wrestling within the software. They just draw pose after pose, frame after frame in a straight forware simple workflow. To them FLASH is heaven sent.
So it's up to you. If you can live with the puppet look or you are a genius modeller/setup person, MOHO can be the tool of choice. If you cannot accept the rigidity of modelling based apps and you are married to your drawing skills, FLASH based app is the way to go. In any case, your animation is as good as the work you put in using your tool/app.
Happy animating.
Sine =)
Lotte Rheiniger (sp?) animated a feature film, "The Adventures of Prince Ahmed", using cut-outs (like Moho) and she did it with only a small number of assistants. This was the first animated feature.
I'm actually thinking about writing a book on digital cut-out animation, which would include Moho (the demo) on the enclosed CD. I don't know how easy it would be to convince somebody to publish such a book, as most people are looking to learn the standard tool (i.e. Flash) and not concerned with what kind of technique they use (cut-out vs. limited animation vs. full animation). However, as I have conceived it the book would address getting the most out of cut-outs, finding work-arounds for the limitations, choosing subject matter that works well with cut-outs and other issues.
I like both cut-out and traditional animation. I don't see a need to choose between the two. I've been working for about a year on a short in Flash (in my spare time) that is fully animated, and in that time I've also done a 1.5 minute film in Moho (took me about 3 weeks).
I'm actually thinking about writing a book on digital cut-out animation, which would include Moho (the demo) on the enclosed CD. I don't know how easy it would be to convince somebody to publish such a book, as most people are looking to learn the standard tool (i.e. Flash) and not concerned with what kind of technique they use (cut-out vs. limited animation vs. full animation). However, as I have conceived it the book would address getting the most out of cut-outs, finding work-arounds for the limitations, choosing subject matter that works well with cut-outs and other issues.
I like both cut-out and traditional animation. I don't see a need to choose between the two. I've been working for about a year on a short in Flash (in my spare time) that is fully animated, and in that time I've also done a 1.5 minute film in Moho (took me about 3 weeks).
Sine, you bring it to the point (i didn't quote your complete post, but I agree in all major points). moho accelerates the creation process. as does flash, or a 3D app, or any other tool. the funny thing is, you appreciate such an "upgrade" only if you know how it was before.Sine wrote:I come from traditional animation background. pencils and paper, inks and cels. Obviously, you need to be able to draw. You can't draw, you can't animate in the old days. To people like us, just being able to draw digitally was like godsend. No more sharpening pencils, no more wasting paper, no more smelly inks and sore fingers from scraping ink off cels. More than a decade ago, I got a pen and tablet for my Amiga and I could draw and animate directly on screen. It was fantastic. When I got a 12x12 pressure sensitive wacom, and ...
i wouldn't go as far as saying that flash stinks, though in a direct comparison and for tasks as specific as 2D character animation and story telling moho is far better than flash - you can work faster, you get results faster. on the other hand, flash can help to optimize file sizes, and these are still crucial for large websites. and, honestly, flash's real power comes from action script and thus interactivity, not from specialized character animation tools. it wasn't built whith those in mind. so you end up using both applications in combination. the true "art" in a production pipeline is not just to know one piece of software, but to use many programs to achieve a certain goal. so maybe we'll see some posts which tell more about cooperation between flash/moho, rather than blaming flash that it doesn't feature bones and such.
solmax