Wow....Flash really stinks.

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bryangreen
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Wow....Flash really stinks.

Post by bryangreen » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:25 am

Just for grins, I went over to the Macromedia site and found some cartoon animation tutorials. I thought: "cool...I can take what I learn and apply it to Moho"...well, it made me realize just how great Moho is vs. Flash for cartooning...it also make me wonder why anyone would use Flash for character animation...

This tutorial demonstrated a process for creating a head shape with a variable-width outline by cutting and pasting an oval onto itself, changing its fill color, and offsetting it to where the original shape in the background became a variable-width outline for the topmost shape. Hmmm....I jumped over to Moho and duplicated the effect by drawing an oval and using the line width tool to adjust the outline. Took all of 5 seconds to accomplish, and I didn't have to monkey around with some crappy workaround using multiple shapes and what not.

Flash doesn't have variable-width outlines? What else is it lacking? After using Moho for a few days now, I can't even think about using Flash for character animation. I continue to be stunned by the immense number of features that Moho has. I'm even more stunned that I hadn't even heard of it until recently, and that it was in its fifth incarnation!

Anyway...just felt that urge to rave about what I think is the single-most powerful 2D animation package in the known universe.

Bryan
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bupaje
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Post by bupaje » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:44 am

Hey Bryan,

You won't find anyone to disagree with you here -unless they're a plant from Macromedia or ToonBoom (looks around suspiciously). ;) Welcome aboard.
LittleFenris
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Re: Wow....Flash really stinks.

Post by LittleFenris » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:55 pm

bryangreen wrote:Flash doesn't have variable-width outlines? What else is it lacking? After using Moho for a few days now, I can't even think about using Flash for character animation. I continue to be stunned by the immense number of features that Moho has. I'm even more stunned that I hadn't even heard of it until recently, and that it was in its fifth incarnation!

Bryan
I've watched the tutorial you are talking about a few times. Great tutorial for Flash based character animation...I've talked to the author a few times. I actually did a character with that method, then started realizing how limited Flash was for character animation, especially since I have a background in 3D animation. Flash has no bones, variable line width, parenting or a lot of Mohos other great features. Shortly after realizing this I found Moho and started playing with the demo. 2 days later I bought Moho and haven't looked back.
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cribble
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Post by cribble » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:32 pm

Flash Is Gash

Need i say more?!
--Scott
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bryangreen
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Post by bryangreen » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:10 pm

Yep...I played around with Moho for, oh, maybe an hour before I bought it. I was almost immediately convinced I just had to have it!

Now that I have a chance to compare it to Flash, I can't believe the hoops one must jump through to do character animation in Flash. I'm glad I discovered Moho-- just at the point I wanted to get into 2D animation!

Bryan
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spasmodic_cheese
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Post by spasmodic_cheese » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:55 am

totally agree flash is bad for character animation, i am still stuck between the two because flashes export filesize, Which is why i made mohoptimize... but geh
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Post by nobudget » Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:48 am

I think Flash became the standard because it was the first real animation program for the web. You could create fast loading vector animations with interactive elements. Unfortunately (for me anyway) the focus was shifted to the interactive part and more action-scripting and other technical features were added and the animation part hasn't really been updated for years. But because it is a standard format people are used to work with the limitations and don't really look for alternatives.

I regard Flash as a interactive presentation application with simple animation tools and Moho is a fully featured animation program without interactivity. Both have their uses, just unfortunate relatively few know about Moho...that said, less competition!

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mason
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Post by mason » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:54 am

I don't think any of you know what Flash is for. It's not just an animation tool. I challenge any of you to make even a simple menu for a website in Moho.

Often I animate in Moho and - export to Flash!
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bupaje
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Post by bupaje » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:56 am

Hey mason. Don't think anyone is bashing Flash - a lot of these guys use it; rather they are saying that Moho is better suited for character animation.
LittleFenris
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Post by LittleFenris » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:15 am

bupaje wrote:Hey mason. Don't think anyone is bashing Flash - a lot of these guys use it; rather they are saying that Moho is better suited for character animation.
I'm sure that's exactly the case. I know I couldn't have made my site w/o Moho. I am certainly using Moho to do character animation for my new site design though. 8)
nobudget
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Post by nobudget » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:06 am

"I don't think any of you know what Flash is for."

I don't think you can read very well or think very well. your call...

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LostAndFound
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Post by LostAndFound » Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:49 pm

Do not get confuse about flash. Flash is an excellent tool but if you are trying to compare it with Moho for character animation, I think it is not fair (you should compare it with Symphony e.g.). Moho is one in its kind and flash is the same. I have done great thinks with flash but if I want to make a character animation I would not choose flash. I think we do not have to see flash as the enemy. Moho and Flash can be very powerful working together, especially for presentations or web. It is in the human nature to try to repel that we do not know.
Regards fellows
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Toontoonz
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Post by Toontoonz » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:16 pm

When Flash started out about 8-10 years ago as Future Splash Animation it was a vector-type cartoon animation platform. Neat idea - but the drawing tools were very primitive (still are - they have barely been updated since then).
One of the unique things about it back then was the ability to "erase" parts of the vector. Cool idea - but in real practice not very useful and hard to control.
Plus one could write simple scripts to activate the animation and move from scene to scene. Nice ideas.

Future Splash Animation was bought by Macromedia and turned into Flash. Not for its cartoon animation tools, but mainly for its file format and its ability to add script.

Macromedia took it over and really made Flash a wonderful product. It helped change the internet. The .swf file is really nice for what it does.

The .swf file is small and the it renders art and graphic with very good colors and sharpness.

Macromedia turned Flash into a platform to create interactive presentations (as in websites or stand alone projectors). Before one could do it on Flash, one did it in Macromedia Director. Director was a clumsy type program that still exists, but relied a lot on coding and a unique interface. Flash (with its compact file format) quickly overshadowed Director.

Flash is great for what it has become, if one can work with the coding part. One can much some great intereactive websites with Flash.
But Flash is not much good for doing much more than basic animation.
It´s kind of clumsy to work with.

Whereas Moho is strictly an animation program and I hope it stays that way. Moho and Flash really have little in common other than one can draw in vectors and put it in a timeline in both programs. Moho is such a different program than Flash. (Moho is what I thought the original Flash (Future Splash Animation) was going to be when it came out ---- but wasn´t. Future Splash Animation was quickly moved to the I rarely work with it dept.)

I like it that one can create an animation in Moho and then take it to Flash to integrate it into one big animation or other project. Moho animation looks very good and compact when it is exported out of Flash as a movie.

Right now, learning Moho I can´t see why I will ever make another cartoon animation in Flash. However, I will be taking my Moho animations and using Flash to make something more with it.

I like Moho, I like Flash. They are only tools for me to express my creativity and make money to live on.
LittleFenris
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Post by LittleFenris » Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:21 pm

Toontoonz wrote:Whereas Moho is strictly an animation program and I hope it stays that way. Moho and Flash really have little in common other than one can draw in vectors and put it in a timeline in both programs.

I like Moho, I like Flash. They are only tools for me to express my creativity and make money to live on.
Exactly. Used in harmony Moho and Flash can be a VERY powerful set of tools. I am currently using both for my new website design. I'll do the character animation in Moho and the interactive elements and coding in Flash.
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pixelwks
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Post by pixelwks » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:20 pm

I have been examining "Mucha Lucha" very closely (frame by frame in some cases) and I have no idea how they are managing this in Flash. There must be thousands of symbols to deal with!

Moho (warts and all) would be a much better choice I would think, but they seem to have some method that works for them.
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