Why don't very skilled anime pro users make a feature flim

jackass · Post by **jackass** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:36 am

Why don't very skilled anime pro users make thier own flim? It way cheaper than other animation programs. They have nothing to lose since they don't have to make back the money spent making it. You have the tool and skills to make something that will look better than snow white at the cost of 100$. Instead of doing shorts for low pay and working for the big guy strike out on your own. Like Ralp Bakshi, and Walt Disney did. Even a big coperation like Walt Disney started out very small and in begining they couldn't animate that well either. So remember that when imtimadated by big studios like Disney just remember where they came from. Sang820,Greykid and Real Snake are the best animators i know! It won't be easy but nothing is and nothing is certain. You could suceed or fail but at 100$ no risk.

dueyftw · Post by **dueyftw** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:09 am

The short answer, Bill Plimpton spends 8 hours a day doing nothing but animation and has some drawing chops. I don't draw that good, and I would elaborate more but I have to go to real job right now that pays the bills. Unlike animation where you know if you quit and become a janitor you probably making more.

If you got 100k laying around, I've got a project for you:)
Dale

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:24 am

Walt sunk every last penny he had into "striking out on his own" and almost didn't make it, despite having (what would be in today's dollars) $40K or more to work with. Do you have $40K to take a chance with? If so, yep, by all means quit your job and make an animated film -- of course, in today's market of sophisticated features with studios like Dreamworks and Pixar having multi-million dollar advertising campaigns (let alone the money they spend to create their films) yours actually won't be seen by anyone, but that's okay -- you don't have to eat for five or six years, do you?

Realistically it's going to be very very very difficult to break into the animation market on your own no matter how much or little you spend on software and hardware. Your absolute best bet is to hired by a good studio and work your way through the system and eventually get in control enough to get your vision accomplished. If you're young enough that's about all you can do to actually "make a feature film".

Or do like many here and make money working for others commercially. It won't be your own vision, for the most part, and it won't be feature length, but you will be doing what you love for money, and that means you never have to work a day again in your life.

Otherwise you're just playing around -- nothing wrong with playing around, but it won't pay the bills (so don't quit your day job).

jackass · Post by **jackass** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:42 am

Sorry dueyftw I was talking about anime studio pro 5 users not traditional animation which takes years to make a flim with and a month just for a short. I know about Bill from hearing Ralph Bakshi praise him for having the guts to make his own features. But it still cost a lot of money to make the traditional animation and it's get to the point where you have get a loan from the same big guys you want to avoid. The point of anime pro is you buy it this one little cd that a 100 insifigant $ and animate in it and your done. Using anime pro it'll take 1 year or a few months and days for a short flim. No storybroads, drawingbroads, cells and big buget. Think about the only money you'll spend is 100$ that it! FRITZ THE CAT 1 million buget vs you spending 100$. And if you got a job just do little bit and save every time your free.

jackass · Post by **jackass** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:12 am

Yeah Im 15 I have all the time in the world to get it right. I don't comparmise nor do i give up. Pixar and Dream works both took serious chances and if they hadn't the animation flim industry would have die off.Same if Walt just laid down and work for universal after they stole Oswell the lucky rabbit from him. The novelty of moving drawings would have die off since animation before the 30's was very primtive and since little Walt is working for the jerks who stole from him instead making Snow white. Another case is after the golden of days of early 50's and 60's cartoons crappy ugly repetive cartoons rear thier heads. And every single animator went to work for the studios that make them. Only one person did other wise Bakshi whether you think he sent adult animation back steps or animation peroid. The point is he did something different not caring if he failed. Ralph like animating then he said why am I moving this charater. Im not stupid nor navie and I know sucess is rare but chance to do your dream is rarer still m kelly

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:45 am

It takes more than "just" skill, determination and time to do a full length feature animation. You also need voice actors, music, sound effects, a good story (that's the first thing). Any project like this could take years for one person to do it and they can't even start animating until the voices and dialog are already recorded. That alone can take weeks or even months for a full length feature.

-vern

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:51 am

If you're 15 then that means you've got three years that your parents (or other guardians) are legally required to support you. By all means, take advantage of that.

Sadly most of us here either have unrelated full-time jobs or do commercial animation. One of the few exceptions would be MKelley, who is doing a series at the moment. He's retired, so he shares some of your coveted free time.

But I'm afraid I really must ask. Have you done any animation? It's just that saying you don't need storyboards makes me wonder. Also you need some experience in order to understand the amount of real work that goes into animating.

Aside from any other concerns though, I'd be willing to bet if someone showed up here with a great script (not just an idea for a story) many would jump on board. But that would be where it would have to start. Hell, even before any serious animation could be done, someone would have to take responsibility for getting the dialog recorded.

jackass · Post by **jackass** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:49 am

I have a very good voice actor one of my teachers husban was a voice actor she told all about it. She said he'll do it just give him thier personalities so he can created voices to match them. Also i got friends a tape recorded and supportive uncle. Im learing anime studio and I trying to animate. What I meant was you can make a story board in anime studio you don't need it in book form. Also this post was orginally asking why animations companies like greykid and sang280 don't make flims despite having every they need. I know the whole animation process you.

InfoCentral · Post by **InfoCentral** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:50 am

Farbklecks · Post by **Farbklecks** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:29 am

Obviously there is a way to produce a little feature film in a hurry...
... well, I'm sure they need a few months of course.

http://www.dingo-pictures.de/en/index.html

•

And yes you need actors for the voice.
...and music?
I like to play around with a software called Musik Maker by MAGIX.(like Apples's Garage Band)
You can't create a melody by your own, but you can make a quilt, a puzzle, a collage with the little music pieces.
For a small short it is usefull I think.

Here are some simple examples, if you want, you can use it.
Expires in 14 days, download 200 times.
https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php? ... d18e10515b

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:14 am

Nothing against the use of AS in a professional production - but a film done entirely in AS will be quite limited, artistically. AS is a tool, a good one, but just one tool in my toolbox. "Done entirely in program X" usually is a declaration of artistic bankruptcy, with very few exceptions. Don't let the software dictate your style or story.

The same is true for all other of our "household items" consumer level programs for editing, music, sound design whatever. You can only go so far with them, but from a certain point on you'll need really professional equipment and the people who know how to use it. I can do great music in GarageBand, edit my film and do dialogue and sound FX in FinalCut - but when I want this to be shown on the big screen, or broadcast it on TV, I have to rent a professional studio for a certified Dolby mix, and buy a licence.

Others already pointed out the minimum amount of money you'll need: 30.000 to 100.000$ or € for a start. This is barely enough for one person doing all the work over 3 or 4 years, plus some hard- and software. It also means that you can't pay your voice artists or anyone else, at least not right now.

Do you really know how much work a feature length film is? Usually it is more than 8 hrs a day. I know that I could finish about 30 to 60 minutes in 3 yrs if I could animate fulltime every day (frame by frame, handdrawn). At that point the 30.000 would be completely spent, and I would need to find funding to finish the rest. But at that point I would have the biggest part of the film already finished, which is a strong point when selling it, so chances are quite good. And it will look good, very good.

I haven't mentioned story yet. You will need a very strong and interesting story. Not a fandom story, of interest only to your peers in the same group of otaku. Not a rip-off off a copy off a remake off a standard off a cliché. You have to be original, intelligent, and really really good, because you will have to compensate for the visual deficits of a film made entirely in AS.

Did I mention drawing skills or a sense of design? Let's face it: only a small fraction of all AS users create stuff which is artistically satisfying. Most can't even draw (although some of them compensate for this in other areas). Aside from all animation tests or example scenes, most the few finished films are visually poor. The good ones, the films which really stick out, are done by people who aren't just versatile in using AS. Those are good animators and designers, and they would make good films in any software, or without any software as well.

</rant>
(steps off soapbox)

ngh903 · Post by **ngh903** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:44 pm

Make some quality short films and post them on youtube. Then get enough views and subscriptions, apply for a youtube partnership. That will get you money along with getting your animations out there.

jackass · Post by **jackass** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:55 pm

can some one tell what I'll need to go with anime studio pro for making a feature flim? I can draw well have a very good story not cliche at all. I know the market and what going on. As I kept saying I'm not a novice just because Im 15 . I know a lot about animation. And since my voice actors are 15 they don't need to get paid that and thier very good friends. I have cast,crew and retired man is very skilled voice actor thanks to a teacher. The will be 2 hours we start production in summer break. Right now im on spring break. During this time i'll learn anime pro by doing tutorials with very basic chacters the move my more complicated ones. put up what they look like. My flim dosn't have to be 2 hours just depends how long it takes to tell the story. I apply what i learn from animation books to anime studio.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:20 pm

Do NOT try to do a feature length animation. It is true that I can be a cynic and a pessimist but I predict you will fail.

Start out first doing a short animation. 5-20 minutes tops (20 minutes is an ETERNITY in animation). Unless you defy all the odds and statistics beyond all expectations you will not be able to produce a full length feature animation "over the summer". It is WAY more work than you think. It is not as "easy" as you think.

You may want to take your full length feature script and change it so it is in an episodic format. Break it up into short complete stories that are continued. You do one short episode at a time. This gives you an opportunity to improve as the "series" goes along if you get that far.

Trust me... a full length feature is NOT easy. You are 15. There is no way you have the experience that some of us who are much older are still struggling to obtain.

Start small first. Maybe do just a short 2 or 3 minute "trailer" of you full length feature. Test the waters. After that if you feel confident enough to do the "whole thing" then go for it. But if you discover that it's too much you can go with the episodic idea.

p.s. Having said all of that... don't let us old fogeys hold you back. You are young enough to recover from any failed project that is too big to complete... or maybe if you start now you will continue to work on it and finish it during or after college.

-vern

Rhoel · Post by **Rhoel** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:58 pm

jackass wrote:can some one tell what I'll need to go with anime studio pro for making a feature flim?

talent, plain and simple.

I ...have a very good story, not cliche at all ...My flim dosn't have to be 2 hours just depends how long it takes to tell the story.

ah, but that is the crunch of the problem. Have you any concept of pinch points, the three act film, why page 45 is important? try reading Syd Field for his thoughts on the subject, then go watch Jurassic Park, Blues Brothers, Leon, etc, with a stopwatch in you hand - the results are very enlightening: As a sometime script writer, its something I've done and learned a hell of a lot from.

I'm not a novice just because Im 15 . I know a lot about animation. I know the market and what going on.

O RLY? like to share with us ... been in the industry for 30 years and I still have NFI what's going on. The two greatest questions in the industry iare 1: Where is my next job coming from? 2: What is the formula for a hit film. The answer to both is ?. If people knew what the market wanted, no-one would go out and make a turkey.

And since my voice actors are 15 they don't need to get paid that and thier very good friends. I have cast,crew and retired man is very skilled voice actor thanks to a teacher.

and you are going to record it in your bedroom? The recording studio time will require your Mom to re mortgage the house. What about the line lengths, the timing, the lip sync. Any idea how long it takes to break a sound track? What about copyright, everyones working on waivers? the lawyers are going to do this for free? No back-end royalties to pay?

[it] will be 2 hours we start production in summer break. Right now im on spring break. During this time i'll learn anime pro by doing tutorials with very basic chacters the move my more complicated ones.

hahahahaha - troll.

You want to share some output with us?

here's one of mine.

(this is a cross-eye stereo pair - look boss-eyed at it untill the left and right images join, then you'll see the depth.)

For what its worth, this shot took around a month to build ... it's a 47M vector file

. The script which calculated the 3d positions took a further 2 weeks to write: I finished the online beta tonight and I'm feeling rather good about it.

while I like your enthusiasm, you are green behind the ears. Go make a three minute short, make it good, then come back and tell us how easy it was

.

Rhoel

Why don't very skilled anime pro users make a feature flim

Why don't very skilled anime pro users make a feature flim

Make Small Scale Films