Chasing after newer versions of any software is like a dog chasing his tail. You go in circles and get nowhere. And when you do catch it, what do you do now!
AS may not be perfect, but still beat everything I've seen until now. So suck it up and make cartoons. If you have a problem that AS won't do, then brute force around it with frame-by-frame, or find a way to finesse the features you do have. Even I haven't touch the deepest of what AS can do.
As long as Smithmicro, e-frontier, Lost marble, continue to make money from AS they will support it. So, make the best cartoon you can and spread the word to you fellow animators. "Arise all ye who labor with inferior software. Arise and follow me!"
OXYDAL! That's the name on my soap box.
It's been long enough Smithmicro
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
That's good to hear Vern. Speaking as someone who knows a bit about the software development process, it can take a while if you're the only guy on a project getting something done. The 5.6 update was a welcome one, but since the 'Suggestions for 6' thread was over 18 months old I was uncertain as to the state of play of its development since it was taken over again. Good to know Lost Marble is still on the case. I guess the long wait will mean big developments!
Tell it once more, 'cause there seems to be a lack of understanding in here. On the Lost Marble site there should also be a team profile of those working on Anime Studio... that's if there's a team. We want to know that there's a dedicated team working on future updates. I would hate to think that Anime Studio at this stage, is still a one-man part-time project with a random release schedule. We don't need to know the list of new features to come, but some sign of activity would be a great thing. For eg. If LM had someone who was producing and issuing Anime Studio tutorials to the forum and posting frequent updates to the online manual, that alone would illustrate that Lost Marble is abuzz with activity. And that's all I need to know.jahnocli wrote:I don't think it's doom and gloom to want to know if AS is part of a development cycle. In the past year ToonBoom has advanced, Flash has advanced -- all I want to know is, if development is continuing. I don't want to know any details, I'm not unhappy with the software, but the silence is deafening...I know enough about software to know that if you stand still long enough, soon you are in all your competitors' rear view mirrors. And AS *does* have competitiors, despite what many users seem to think.heyvern wrote:I'm just sick of the doom and gloom
G'Day, this discussion is surely over guys, don't worry about it.
As for time spans and waiting, don't worry about it, if I might give an example, that contrasts with other examples on this topic.
if anyone here uses professional audio software, I know MKelly does, you would know they get updated fairly often..... or do they?
I have often been led towards the believe that other software for that purposes has been left and forgotten but this has proven to be just a scare.
Up till recently I waited 2 whole years for an update of Sony acid pro while Sony's editing software vegas went through numerous updates. Ever now and then I would check on the sony forum to see pages of doom gloom and outrage on this subject, but all the while not a word from sony.
Then one day about 2 weeks ago into my inbox a message doth manifest.....
Yup, it was the announcement of the new version.
Let's just all settle down and wait for a little while, Mr Clifton will probably surprise us all pleasantly as he has done in the past.
As for time spans and waiting, don't worry about it, if I might give an example, that contrasts with other examples on this topic.
if anyone here uses professional audio software, I know MKelly does, you would know they get updated fairly often..... or do they?
I have often been led towards the believe that other software for that purposes has been left and forgotten but this has proven to be just a scare.
Up till recently I waited 2 whole years for an update of Sony acid pro while Sony's editing software vegas went through numerous updates. Ever now and then I would check on the sony forum to see pages of doom gloom and outrage on this subject, but all the while not a word from sony.
Then one day about 2 weeks ago into my inbox a message doth manifest.....
Yup, it was the announcement of the new version.
Let's just all settle down and wait for a little while, Mr Clifton will probably surprise us all pleasantly as he has done in the past.
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slice11217
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You know, I think the thing is: when it was just plain ol' Lost Marble (though it really wasn't PLAIN by any means) we had pretty good communication with the source, then when it was e-frontier there was still decent communication and they really seemed committed to making things work. Since it's been with SM the communication's been really quite lax (nonexistent would be more appropriate, but just in case anyone's had a different experience I'll stick with lax) and the customer service hasn't bee stellar either.
Naturally, this marked change in communication is going to cause easy speculation, and not the good kind either. It's also going to make people anxious. I mean we all knew there was a version 5.6 coming but it was quite a while before it was issued and that had a little to do with waiting until the dust settled a bit on the SM takeover. Then when it was issued, there was quite a debacle for us to get our hands on it!
Put simply, SM betrayed a trust with its customer base that had been built by the previous two entities from which we purchased AS/Moho. Vern's posting made me feel better; I'll feel much better when I start hearing from Mike again.
Naturally, this marked change in communication is going to cause easy speculation, and not the good kind either. It's also going to make people anxious. I mean we all knew there was a version 5.6 coming but it was quite a while before it was issued and that had a little to do with waiting until the dust settled a bit on the SM takeover. Then when it was issued, there was quite a debacle for us to get our hands on it!
Put simply, SM betrayed a trust with its customer base that had been built by the previous two entities from which we purchased AS/Moho. Vern's posting made me feel better; I'll feel much better when I start hearing from Mike again.
I'll add another piece to the puzzle...
Smith Micro (SM) never had ANY applications like the ones they got from e-frontier. The programs SM had been selling were simple, small, one trick pony applications without a lot of bells and whistles. This is all new to them from what I can see.
This is the first time they've had to deal with the marketing, distribution and support for a bunch of complex applications and a large, vocal user community. It could be they are still going through a transition, trying to get a handle on how this works for them as a company. From what we've seen so far they basically just kept everything the same and put their own logo on it.
Anyone here use Poser? Are the Poser forums active on this issue? Are they worried about updates and lack of feedback?
Our situation with AS is different from a program like Poser with a long history and large established user base. AS was new and unknown when e-frontier got it. Even when it was Moho there was a teeny tiny user base compared to similar applications. The Moho user community was very very small. In a very short time frame it went through a ton of changes.
When it was being distributed by e-frontier we... sort of... expected more. Remember WHY Mike did this. He was doing more than he could handle. He needed help with marketing and distribution. Not many applications are updated as often as he was doing it. That is very unusual.
Now what we are experiencing is the AVERAGE upgrade schedule of the AVERAGE application development cycle. We don't have a dedicated programmer who can upload new versions as he likes. He has to go through the process dictated by the distributer. He probably has to keep track of his time now. He can't add just the features he wants, he probably has to go through some decision process dictated by SM to stay on some sort of predefined schedule (I'm speculating again. No inside info here. Just guessing.)
I've seen some big huge gigantic software companies who NEVER EVER communicate with the users. You only get the occasional automated form email whenever something new is ready to go.
How often do new versions of Poser come out? Once a year? Once every two years? How many versions or updates of other programs come out? How often do updates for Photoshop come out?
Mike couldn't maintain what he was doing in the "Moho days". Those days are gone. We knew that when e-frontier got involved. He explained why it was changing. Obviously there weren't going to be regular updates as often as there were when it was Moho.
I bought Moho 5.3 (or 5.4?). It was the LAST Moho update. I didn't see an upgrade with new features until AS 5.6 a short time ago. And yet I was so freaking blown away with Moho I didn't care. All this time I was still learning new stuff.
I look forward to AS v6 whenever it comes out. It will come. Considering I still use Photoshop v7 on Panther I'm not in that much of a hurry.
-vern
Smith Micro (SM) never had ANY applications like the ones they got from e-frontier. The programs SM had been selling were simple, small, one trick pony applications without a lot of bells and whistles. This is all new to them from what I can see.
This is the first time they've had to deal with the marketing, distribution and support for a bunch of complex applications and a large, vocal user community. It could be they are still going through a transition, trying to get a handle on how this works for them as a company. From what we've seen so far they basically just kept everything the same and put their own logo on it.
Anyone here use Poser? Are the Poser forums active on this issue? Are they worried about updates and lack of feedback?
Our situation with AS is different from a program like Poser with a long history and large established user base. AS was new and unknown when e-frontier got it. Even when it was Moho there was a teeny tiny user base compared to similar applications. The Moho user community was very very small. In a very short time frame it went through a ton of changes.
When it was being distributed by e-frontier we... sort of... expected more. Remember WHY Mike did this. He was doing more than he could handle. He needed help with marketing and distribution. Not many applications are updated as often as he was doing it. That is very unusual.
Now what we are experiencing is the AVERAGE upgrade schedule of the AVERAGE application development cycle. We don't have a dedicated programmer who can upload new versions as he likes. He has to go through the process dictated by the distributer. He probably has to keep track of his time now. He can't add just the features he wants, he probably has to go through some decision process dictated by SM to stay on some sort of predefined schedule (I'm speculating again. No inside info here. Just guessing.)
I've seen some big huge gigantic software companies who NEVER EVER communicate with the users. You only get the occasional automated form email whenever something new is ready to go.
How often do new versions of Poser come out? Once a year? Once every two years? How many versions or updates of other programs come out? How often do updates for Photoshop come out?
Mike couldn't maintain what he was doing in the "Moho days". Those days are gone. We knew that when e-frontier got involved. He explained why it was changing. Obviously there weren't going to be regular updates as often as there were when it was Moho.
I bought Moho 5.3 (or 5.4?). It was the LAST Moho update. I didn't see an upgrade with new features until AS 5.6 a short time ago. And yet I was so freaking blown away with Moho I didn't care. All this time I was still learning new stuff.
I look forward to AS v6 whenever it comes out. It will come. Considering I still use Photoshop v7 on Panther I'm not in that much of a hurry.
-vern
Vern made many good points in that original post of his in this thread. As well as AS, I use a couple of other animation programs and many of the things he said really struck a familiar chord ....heyvern wrote:Mike sent a reply to my email really fast (he wasn't avoiding me ..... If someone says "Yes, next month" and it it's more than that... people get furious and complain even more
(a) When a developer responds quickly, it shows that they're active. The developers of one program that I use (Artoonix) behave like this and even though they don't always seem to be responding in the forum, they're always quick to respond to direct queries. That program continues to undergo updates as and when they have thoroughly tested everything. (No update has as yet crashed or thrown up problems).
(b) On the few previous occasions in the past when those developers did hint at a date for an update and it then went past, many users started bellowing. Lateness was because of that rigorous testing. Now the developers never promise a release date.
(c) Annoyingly, every time a new update is released, the forum starts being filled with messages along the lines of "Can't wait for the next update" --- and thus the senseless cycle starts all over again.
Moral #1 is > If summat works, use it and be happy.
Moral #2 is > If a developer is active, it's quite likely that they will listen to suggestions - so be constructive rather than a complainer.
Moral #3 is > Some people are just never happy.
Once, I saw myself in a mirror.
Or did I?
Or did I?
I'm a Poser user, and I haven't kept up with the up dates. They want too much money and I'm doing more 2d than 3d. The difference is Poser makes money besides just the program, I have spent more for content than the Poser program. More people use Poser because it very easy to use and there is very skill involved in the art work. 99% of all Poser renders I can duplicate if I buy the same content.
This thread is a long wine for an update to AS, Well put in in the same group of wieners, I want an update too.
I wish I could program and write decent code, but I can't, because I would just write a container that holds all the scripts the every has wrote for AS. Just one script of all the scripts that work, held in a free download someplace on the net and updated each time another user that can write code comes up with something. That way one can use a modified AS and change it back if they don't need or like the script.
Just a thought after all the users have done more than the owners of AS lately.
Dale
This thread is a long wine for an update to AS, Well put in in the same group of wieners, I want an update too.
I wish I could program and write decent code, but I can't, because I would just write a container that holds all the scripts the every has wrote for AS. Just one script of all the scripts that work, held in a free download someplace on the net and updated each time another user that can write code comes up with something. That way one can use a modified AS and change it back if they don't need or like the script.
Just a thought after all the users have done more than the owners of AS lately.
Dale
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Freakish Kid
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funksmaname
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It doesn't surprise me that a talented studio like GKP isn't concerned with new versions. Once you have an established work flow it can be problematic to upgrade to a new version.
It's like a craftsman and his tools. Having brand new shiny tools with all the fancy bells and whistles won't make you any better than the experienced artisan with really old tools that are well maintained and familiar.
-vern
It's like a craftsman and his tools. Having brand new shiny tools with all the fancy bells and whistles won't make you any better than the experienced artisan with really old tools that are well maintained and familiar.
-vern
That doesn't surprise me either. Moho 5 and AnimeStudio 5.6 are virtually identical anyway, apart from the 3 extra features and bug fixes in the Mac version.GreyKid wrote:We're still using Moho 5.
Not a thing wrong with it.
GK
I don't know if this has been asked before, but do you guys use scripts much to customize the tools in Moho and make certain repetitive tasks quicker?
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Freakish Kid
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Nope, we use just the basic tools, a bit of masking, some switch layers but mainly just points and bone animation.Rudiger wrote: That doesn't surprise me either. Moho 5 and AnimeStudio 5.6 are virtually identical anyway, apart from the 3 extra features and bug fixes in the Mac version.
I don't know if this has been asked before, but do you guys use scripts much to customize the tools in Moho and make certain repetitive tasks quicker?
Not the tool that makes it great but the talent using it.
GK
Uh... you realize how funny that sounds right? So if you leave the code out of the refrigerator over night with the cover off, a few small features and fixes would spontaneously generate on their own so they don't really count?Rudiger wrote:Moho 5 and AnimeStudio 5.6 are virtually identical anyway, apart from the 3 extra features and bug fixes in the Mac version.
Or maybe it's magic coding elves?
-vern
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Lost Marble
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OK, here's what I can say
Hi guys,
First of all, thanks Vern for standing up for me. I appreciate the support. Thanks too everyone else who's had nice things to say about Anime Studio/Moho. We all like to hate faceless corporations, but inside the company are real people, and I for one am glad that users appreciate the work we do.
Now, speaking of "people inside the company"...here's the news I was hinting at to Vern: As of now, I am working at Smith Micro full time. And I'm working on Anime Studio full time. I can't really get more specific than that - Smith Micro is a publicly-traded company, so I can't make "forward looking statements". But I can tell you the simple facts: I am an employee of Smith Micro who works full time on Anime Studio.
Please rest assured that this is very good news for Anime Studio.
-Mike
First of all, thanks Vern for standing up for me. I appreciate the support. Thanks too everyone else who's had nice things to say about Anime Studio/Moho. We all like to hate faceless corporations, but inside the company are real people, and I for one am glad that users appreciate the work we do.
Now, speaking of "people inside the company"...here's the news I was hinting at to Vern: As of now, I am working at Smith Micro full time. And I'm working on Anime Studio full time. I can't really get more specific than that - Smith Micro is a publicly-traded company, so I can't make "forward looking statements". But I can tell you the simple facts: I am an employee of Smith Micro who works full time on Anime Studio.
Please rest assured that this is very good news for Anime Studio.
-Mike