Learning how to draw

General Moho topics.

Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger

blacksunproject
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:45 am

Learning how to draw

Post by blacksunproject »

The subject of "'learning how to draw" has resurfaced.

I want to throw out a question to everyone,

"Can anyone learn how to draw?"

and

"What does it take to learn how to draw?"

I ask because I have been drawing since childhood and I continue to read comments about folks not being able to draw?

I would like to invite everyone to this conversation.
I want to read what you all have to say about this before I comment myself.

Thank you,
Gustavo
User avatar
synthsin75
Posts: 9934
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Post by synthsin75 »

Everyone can learn how to draw. It's just like anything else. If you have enough interest to practice, you can't help but get better (perhaps slowly but better nonetheless).

I remember when I was a child, I drew like everyone else. But most everyone else soon quit drawing. Over the years I have steadily improved, up to now being able to draw anything I look at.


Image

Here's some of my work (in charcoal). But believe me, in elementary school I drew as goofy as any kid. :wink:
User avatar
heyvern
Posts: 7035
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Post by heyvern »

There's a great book called "Drawing on the right side of the brain".

As a "natural" born "artist", when I read this book the things described that happened to my "mind" when I was being "artistic" were already very familiar to me.

The trick with "learning to draw" is that it is more a state of mind. When you practice drawing, yes you improve, but you also are putting one part of your brain in more control. This is the key. It is that "switch" that is the key to tapping into the creative side of the brain.

My favorite experiment from that book, something I did with friends and family, was to give someone a simple line drawing of a chair to copy. Those who weren't artists tried to draw what they thought was a chair and it looked awful. They didn't "see" the drawing... they saw what it represented... a chair.

Turn the drawing upside down so the chair was not recognized as a familiar object and this forced the person to use a different part of the brain. The drawing was ten times better and often very accurate.

The other thing the book talks about is how our perception of time changes when your right brain is in control. I experience this everyday. Sometimes I have to be an artist sometimes I have to do programmer or "accountant" left brain type stuff.

Both activities have profoundly different impacts on my conscious state of mind. As an artist time seems to fly. Hours fly by like minutes... it's almost like a trance really. I am still doing a lot of work during that time but I don't seem to register it the same way. I don't experience the time passing by.

Doing left brain activities time seems to run normally or can even seem to stretch a bit.

I often have difficulties switching when I need to. I hate having to do paper work and fill out invoices and estimates and book keeping... and yet... once I force the switch out of "artist mode" and do those things... I get into it... and it doesn't seem to take that long... and I wonder why I didn't just do it and get it done in the first place.

As an example, when I am in "artist mode" I can't seem to find the energy to do scripting for AS. When I am in that scripting mode... I lose some of my artistic desire. I have to ease myself back into it.

I think drawing can be learned... I'm not sure how well it can be learned if you don't have the innate ability. At a certain age I think the brain is less likely to be capable of learning new things or break out of established patterns.

I think also a inborn artistic talent can be lost completely. When my mother was much younger she was an artist and painted. She had the potential to become better... but stopped and now couldn't draw anything really. She is a very good writer. It could be she channeled that artistic skill to words.

My older brother was a much better artist than myself. When we were kids I was always jealous of his talent. He never pursued this talent and hasn't drawn or painted or done anything like that he was in high school. He probably doesn't have that skill now. He is a talented, if amateur musician, so maybe he channeled that skill to music.

-vern
User avatar
synthsin75
Posts: 9934
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Post by synthsin75 »

Turn the drawing upside down so the chair was not recognized as a familiar object
Yeah, people often seem to have the mistaken idea that an artist is duplicating some finished idea within their head. That may be why people try to draw from their head first, and become disheartened by the results.

I tend to think of it as constructing a drawing as I go, instead of having any solid idea in mind. It's all mechanics to me. I'm building something. It's much more of an action activity than a mental activity (which probably explains the time flying).


One good exercise:

This may be blasphemy to some artists, but tracing is good practice. Even if you just trace directly on an image with a stylus or something. For one, it gets you use to the motion of drawing. Kind of training your hand, so to speak. Two, it gets you out of the mind frame that you have to duplicate this idea in your head. If you actually trace images, it forces you to take a more construction approach, as you have to systematically follow every line of the image.

But I'm sure there are many different approaches. :wink:

Edit:My above example is no trace. Just thought I should clarify that. I only advocate tracing for learning purposes.
User avatar
jahnocli
Posts: 3471
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: UK

Post by jahnocli »

In a past life I was an art teacher, and went on to train art graduates to teach, so I have some experience in answering this. Anyone can be taught to pass an art exam, given sufficient motivation. But producing art comes from inside, a response to feelings about your world. And teaching THAT *is* impossible.
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
User avatar
Rasheed
Posts: 2008
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 8:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Post by Rasheed »

Plus, it is a known fact that you shouldn't judge your work while you're creating it. This applies to all creative arts (drawing, writing, programming, etc.).

What else is drawing than externalizing what you see with your mind's eye? Anyone who can hold a pencil has more than enough skills to draw, to put something on a piece of paper.

The hard part is translating what you see in your imagination (after observing nature) to an actual drawing. That takes a lot of practice. It is estimated that you need at least 10,000 hours of practice to become good at any skill (piano playing, drawing, carpentry, C programming, etc.), or, roughly 10 years.

And even if you're good at something, that doesn't mean you are a master, because that requires talent, which can't be learned, but is stored in your DNA. For drawing, it's about being able to concentrate for long periods, good dexterity, and those kinds of things.
blacksunproject
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:45 am

Post by blacksunproject »

The phrases "natural born artist"

and

"requires talent"

have been used in this post.

Does someone have to be a "natural born artist" or do they "require talent" to become artists?

Does this not "discourage" people who are in the infancy stages of developing
an interest and desire to at least "attempt" drawing?
User avatar
Rasheed
Posts: 2008
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 8:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Post by Rasheed »

If you see what some theories say about talent, in as far as the brain is concerned, it is about little things, small alterations in patterns. Of course, those are amplified when the brain is functioning at a more abstract level.

However, these patterns don't seem to be fixed. The fixation is at the other end, the --let's say-- hardware. People with talent have extraordinary hardware.

Genius, OTOH, seems to be largely a matter of deep concentration, and the ability to chain thoughts and ideas at a very deep and abstract level. When Einstein's brain (a certified genius) was dissected, people expected complex brain patterns. Instead, they saw a lot of helper cells, that nourish brain cells. Now, that seems logical, because Einstein was able to concentrate for very long periods when doing his "thought experiments". It seems logical that with such a sustained firing of brain cells, you'd need a large sustained energy supply.

The trick of learning a skill seems to be to divide the task up into bits that you're able to do. A typical workflow is backwards. A teacher let's his pupil put the finishing touches to an almost finished drawing. An master animator let's the new animator do the relatively easy inbetweens, etc. Once you've mastered that level, you can go backwards, until you end with a blank sheet of paper.

This is why sketches of famous artists are so important, and roughs of famous animators. If you're able to finish those, you're a step closer to being a good draftsman or a good animator.

Starting from scratch is much harder, and can be so frustrating that you soon give up and rationalize by claiming that you have no talent. You couldn't be further from the truth. Everyone has talent to draw, only not everyone has the same amount of talent.

The best way to learn how to draw is to find a good teacher, who is patient enough to deal with your quirks as a human, and still guide you towards achieving your goals. He let's you start simple and slowly gives you harder and harder exercises. However, though challenging, the exercises should aways be doable, achievable. You brain tries to find a solution to finish the exercise, and while doing that, you learn how to draw in the process.
User avatar
heyvern
Posts: 7035
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Post by heyvern »

blacksunproject wrote:The phrases "natural born artist"

and

"requires talent"

have been used in this post.

Does someone have to be a "natural born artist" or do they "require talent" to become artists?

Does this not "discourage" people who are in the infancy stages of developing
an interest and desire to at least "attempt" drawing?
Sorry about that. I tried to use "quotes" to indicate that this wasn't... an exact science.

A "natural born talent" just acknowledges that some people are born with a stronger "right brain". They don't have to work as hard to achieve that artistic state of mind. I know for a fact that I was born with this ability. It doesn't make my special or better... I was just lucky.

Many musicians are born with similar talents. I have a cousin who was always interested in music. He was able to hear in his mind 4 part harmonies. He has an inate musical ability. I think that people can learn to be great musicians but having a so called "natural" ability gives you a head start and advantage.

We all know the story of Mozart and his rival.

Having "talent" is the same as "natural born artist". Someone who doesn't have that natural ability I think can still learn it. Like I said it is a matter of changing your state of mind. I would have to say that the level of excellence may depend on having that inborn talent... but on the other hand hard work and practice counts for a lot as well.

The book I mentioned talks about going through a ritual of sorts to put your mind in that state. Sort of like meditation.

---
Side note:

In art school (The school I went to focused on commercial art) there was a classmate who couldn't draw if his life depended on it. He just didn't have the ability to... draw in the traditional sense but he had an absolutely fantastic skill at composition, and color, and typography. I've worked with many art directors who couldn't paint a portrait or draw with charcoals etc... but they were amazingly skilled at coming up with dramatic compositions and layouts for ads and other print work that were handed off to the other "artistes" to finish.

I only mention this to encourage people not give up on a career or desire to be a part of the creative industry just because they think they can't draw. You don't always have to have the specific talents to do the actual "drawing". If you feel your are creative try to find that thing you are good at.

-vern
blacksunproject
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:45 am

Post by blacksunproject »

Sorry about that. I tried to use "quotes" to indicate that this wasn't... an exact science.
No problem dude.
The reason I brought those two subject to the forefront is because I've heard them so much during debates about drawing.
User avatar
synthsin75
Posts: 9934
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Post by synthsin75 »

blacksunproject wrote:The phrases "natural born artist"

and

"requires talent"

have been used in this post.

Does someone have to be a "natural born artist" or do they "require talent" to become artists?

Does this not "discourage" people who are in the infancy stages of developing
an interest and desire to at least "attempt" drawing?
I seem to be in the minority. (Nothing new) I don't believe in a 'inborn talent'. I say it's all just skill that can be learned. It just takes the perseverance to keep at it. The only difference, between 'talented" people and everyone else, is that the 'talented' found their niche early enough in life to have all this time to develop it.

There's no other secret. The human brain has been found capable of changing where in its structure it handles certain tasks. Enough practice at anything will cause the brain to accommodate to the new demands on it.

Now if you aren't determined enough to stick with it, regardless of any 'talent' naysayers, you won't ever get the practice needed to develop this skill. But remember, any skill usually takes years to mature.

:wink:


P.s. Take another look at the picture I posted above. That's skill, not talent. I tend to take it as an insult when people assume I was magically born with this ability. It took years of what would've been hard work if I didn't enjoy it so much.
Genete
Posts: 3483
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:27 pm
Location: España / Spain

Post by Genete »

"Can anyone learn how to draw?"
Yes, anyone. :)
What does it take to learn how to draw?
Practice, practice, practice and more practice. :)

And I ask:

"Do you enjoy drawing?"

if you enjoy drawing... who cares about drawing skills? :)

but if you need to improve your drawing quality for a big reason (make money) and its difficulties make you sad... Mmmm you have a problem my friend.

Have fun is the key! :D
User avatar
heyvern
Posts: 7035
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Post by heyvern »

synthsin75 wrote: I seem to be in the minority. (Nothing new) I don't believe in a 'inborn talent'. I say it's all just skill that can be learned. It just takes the perseverance to keep at it. The only difference, between 'talented" people and everyone else, is that the 'talented' found their niche early enough in life to have all this time to develop it.
Probably not so much a minority. I think I believe this more than comes across in my posts. I think maybe I am afraid to come right out and say it can be learned if... I'm wrong and people do get discouraged.

I don't have any degree or experience with how the brain works really. I know that for years I've always wished I was better at math and programming but haven't had much luck improving those skills much... I probably started too late... and I have so many other interests.

Another thing I've noticed... practice practice practice. If you stop doing something you were good at... you get very rusty.

-vern
blacksunproject
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:45 am

Post by blacksunproject »

Another thing I've noticed... practice practice practice. If you stop doing something you were good at... you get very rusty.

-vern
Yes
blacksunproject
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:45 am

Post by blacksunproject »

I would like to thank everyone for their participation with this topic.

I feel that drawing is something that everyone can do with the right "motivation" and "expectations", folks who have a desire to learn how to draw can achieve the goal.

I feel that their are some issues that people need to understand before making the attempt:

1) Be realistic
No one learns to draw overnight.
It's all about practice.
People have said to me that they tried to learn how to draw. When I asked them how much time they invested, they replied, 1 semester in college or one month. When I asked how many hour, they replied 1 hour, maybe two.
No one can learn at that pace.

2) Search for a good instructor
This is difficult. Good teachers are hard to find. In my experience, especially in college, I found that bad teachers can do more damage to a student trying to learn. In college some of us were told that 75 percent of us would never make it in the field or become artists. Don't pay money to be discouraged by instructors who do not know how to encourage and nurture students. Tell these assholes to go to hell and continue to study, on your own if need be.

3) Search for people who share your passion
Being with people who are passionate about drawing, animation etc., is better than being in a classroom full of talented students.

4) Don't set a goal or a time limit
Too many folks are hung-up on being or doing something successful at a certain age or part of their life. That is a recipe for disaster. Just continue to practice and develop your skill.

5) Keep track of your development
The best way to see how much you've improved is to keep every drawing you made. Here's an exercise: Pick a day to start drawing, draw a year to the same day of the following year, keep every drawing and when you reach the same day in the following year, pull out all the drawings you did in date order and see how much you've improved. This is not like giving yourself a time limit. I guarantee that you'll see improvement.

6) Don't compare yourself to anyone else
You are your own person. You are going to develop at your pace.
Don't ever listen to people when they say stuff like, "You'll never be Da Vinci or Michael Angelo. OF COURSE YOU WON'T, THEY'RE DEAD!
Only Da Vinci was Da Vinci, only Michael Angelo was Michael Angelo. You are you and that will always make you unique.

7) Start a library of other peoples work that you admire
These are the people that will influence what you like and how you progress.

I know all of this is easier said than done. I know I sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet. I'm not. None of use were born walking, running, talking and drawing. We all have to practice to become better.

Practice, practice, practice and practice.

PS: I sucked and, the only way I got better was through practice and persistence, believe me, I sucked!
Post Reply