Timeline consolidation

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Jkoseattle
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Timeline consolidation

Post by Jkoseattle » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:32 am

I built an animation for work, and it's finished and put away. But now I've decided I want to do a new expanded version of it which has a little more to it and also will also be married to a soundtrack, a piece I produced years ago. Now I need to move events around in the movie to sync with this music, plus I am going to add some more events here and there. I'm not changing the music, because I like it and because I don't have those instruments anymore, so editing the music to fit the animation is not possible.

I'm looking at the Moho project now and, well, there's a lot going on, a lot of timeline events, maybe 50 layers. I'm dreading the agonizing tedium of selecting all the keyframes for just the right events and dragging them around just so, which I imagine is going to involve a great deal of squinting at itty-bitty keyframes and scrolling up and down in the timeline and making sure I have selected the exactly right things before dragging them, many times over. What I'd like to be able to do is see a single event, for example "The ball comes out of the hole and scoots over to the panel which then lights up", all as a single "thing" I can select and drag en masse without having to make sure I've got all the keyframes picked, not to mention there will be a bunch of other "things" that come after that will also need to slide around as I work.

The task is simple - be able to move chunks of animation around as complete events, but how this can be done is what I don't know. Ideas? I'm wondering if maybe I should save a "thing" as an action, and then have single keyframes to trigger each action, and then I'm just dragging around action keyframes, and if I need to make adjustments inside a "thing", I go into the action to do it -- is that the way? I've only used Actions sporadically and am not at all comfortable with them yet. I'm still on v12, and I understand Actions are improved in v13, though I don't know if that would be relevant in my situation.
Most of the time I'm doing music stuff. Check me out at http://www.jimofseattle.com/music.

Thing I did for work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgFYGqifLYw
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slowtiger
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by slowtiger » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 am

As long as what you want to move is in a single layer (group), this can be done in the Sequencer tab of the timeline. If you've never used this before, you should train on a different project first. (And make a copy for security anyway.)
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Lukas
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by Lukas » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:35 am

I wouldn't go with actions myself. You can't add a new channel in an action and expect it to update in the main timeline, so you can't really trust that system in my opinion.

Check out Rudiger's Nudge Keys Toolset: http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13935

It won't work with channels introduced after AS8 though... :/
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Jkoseattle
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by Jkoseattle » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:58 pm

slowtiger wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 am
As long as what you want to move is in a single layer (group), this can be done in the Sequencer tab of the timeline. If you've never used this before, you should train on a different project first. (And make a copy for security anyway.)
Ah, yes ok that might do the trick. However, I have all layers visible in Frame 0, and then I make everything invisible in frame 1. Moho sees this frame 1 hiding as a layer event of course, so when I drag a bar in the sequencer, it also drags the beginning where I hide it, so the hiding keyframe moves from frame 1 out however far I dragged the bar. How might I work around that?
Most of the time I'm doing music stuff. Check me out at http://www.jimofseattle.com/music.

Thing I did for work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgFYGqifLYw
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cgrotke
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by cgrotke » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:34 pm

I had the exact same issue yesterday, and thought that sliding layers in the sequencer would solve it. (I was trying to add a quick title to an-already made animation) Nope. That first frame lingers and is stubborn.

Couldn't figure it out. Tried deleting that first frame, editing it, etc.

Ended up reseting everything the way it was, then laying my title over that existing animation. Not what I wanted, but got me through it.
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slowtiger
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by slowtiger » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:13 pm

I try to avoid manoeuvres like this because Moho isn't really built for that. Instead I render stuff and try to fix it in video editor, fortunately I can use transpareny and render only parts.
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Jkoseattle
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by Jkoseattle » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:14 pm

cgrotke wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:34 pm
I had the exact same issue yesterday, and thought that sliding layers in the sequencer would solve it. (I was trying to add a quick title to an-already made animation) Nope. That first frame lingers and is stubborn.

Couldn't figure it out. Tried deleting that first frame, editing it, etc.

Ended up reseting everything the way it was, then laying my title over that existing animation. Not what I wanted, but got me through it.
OK @cgrotke, we're on our own I guess. I guess I'll let the frame 1 keyframes come along for the ride, then I'll explicitly put them back where they belong.

Another quote-unqoute "solution" is to leave a LOT of padding before the movie starts - I'm putting in like 15 seconds. Then I set the start to 15 seconds in. That way, Moho is free to move frame 1 wherever it pleases when I move things around. That is, unless I need to slide something over by >15 seconds.
Most of the time I'm doing music stuff. Check me out at http://www.jimofseattle.com/music.

Thing I did for work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgFYGqifLYw
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Maestral
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by Maestral » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:40 pm

Perhaps...

In Sequencer, slide the desired portion to where you need it
Go back to Channels and, at that set/desired place on timeline, uncheck Visible

Now, swap the new visibility keys.
Keep in mind that these v. keys would not slide along so if you adjust the position in Sequencer - you'll need to nudge these keys as well.

If there's a v.key on frame 1 - slide the portion in Sequencer and then, in Channels, swap the 'stubborn' key with the fr1 key - place the fr1 key before the 'stubborn' one, adjust - et voila! 8)
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by Víctor Paredes » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:55 pm

I'm dealing with projects with many many layers, and from my own expierence, I totally recommend you this:

- Get the Tag layers with keys script from Wes.
It will check for any layer animated in the mainline and tag it as 'animated'. So then you can use the tag filter in the Layers window to show only the animated layers.

- Get the amazing AE key tools. It contains many many features, such as:
-- Smart copy and paste keyframes from an entire folder, so you can copy the pose of a character from any frame into any other
-- Cleanup the animation: Remove every idle keyframe. Many times, by manually adding keys or freezeing the pose, we add many keys that are not moving anything, actually. That makes the timeline much busier than it should.
-- Select all the keyframes in the current frame
And many more useful options.

- Add a shortcut for Consolidate layer channels. In my case it is Ctrl+Y.
By doing this, you can manipulate the keyframes from the selected layers very easily. Once you are done, just press the shortcut again to have the normal timeline back.

I hope this is useful :)
Víctor Paredes
Former Moho Product Manager
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cgrotke
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Re: Timeline consolidation

Post by cgrotke » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:01 pm

Maestral wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:40 pm
Perhaps...

In Sequencer, slide the desired portion to where you need it
Go back to Channels and, at that set/desired place on timeline, uncheck Visible

Now, swap the new visibility keys.
Keep in mind that these v. keys would not slide along so if you adjust the position in Sequencer - you'll need to nudge these keys as well.

If there's a v.key on frame 1 - slide the portion in Sequencer and then, in Channels, swap the 'stubborn' key with the fr1 key - place the fr1 key before the 'stubborn' one, adjust - et voila! 8)
I went back in and tried playing with visibility as a workaround and it worked!

I nudged my animation in the sequencer, then went back to Channels and made my stubborn frame invisible, then once we got to the right start point I turned visibility back on.

A bit weird, but successful . Thanks!

(Anyone know how to nudge two different sequencer tracks at the same time?)
Christopher Grotke
MuseArts - Web Design & Animation
www.musearts.com
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