My future with Moho

General Moho topics.

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Re: My future with Moho

Postby Manu » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Very sad to hear this. I've drifted away from Moho over the years as other programs dominate here in London. But I still have a soft spot for good ol' Moho. I hope it still has a future.

Talking about open source. I wonder how feasible or helpful it would be to piggy back a 2D software on something like Blender. To add a Moho layer to an existing 3D program. I know Blender has some 2D animation tools, but they don't look nearly as comprehensive as you would want them to be.

Just leaving that thought out there for you Mike :)
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Re: My future with Moho

Postby herbert123 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:44 pm

I would welcome Mike working on bettering open source 2d animation software - in particular 2d IK rigging. Starting a whole new 2d animation app would be re-inventing the wheel in my opinion, though. It would take years.

Piggy-backing an existing open source alternative could perhaps work, and not take up too much of Mike's time. He has excellent 2d IK rigging development experience - so perhaps extending the one in OpenToonz would be a worthwhile endeavour?

The current IK cut-out rigging in OpenToonz is pretty limited. I'd love to see it expanded with proper bone tools, effectors, a good selection of constraints, mesh skinning & weighting tools. Currently it's not even possible to restrict the angles of rotation for IK bones. Constraints don't exist.

OpenToonz is already extremely solid in regards to frame-by-frame animation, and supports both bitmap and vector. A basic IK bones system is in place, as are nodes. It just needs its IK rigging and animation part to be expanded and improve up to modern standards (and beyond?) and include a pose management/library. Mike wouldn't have to start from scratch - the foundation is already there.

Anyway, Mike: perhaps have a quick glance at the existing IK rigging code in OpenToonz? Might be a good starting point... You could even start your own branch. And blow away anything else in terms of 2d IK cutout character animation. :D
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Re: My future with Moho

Postby JaMike » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:38 pm

Both Manu and Herbert have good points. However it is interesting to see that Blender devs already took code from OpenToonz to integrate into Blender, so it seems like Herbert's method may be the most sensible - add on to OpenToonz and then it will be integrated in Blender "automatically". Then we get better tools in two programs for hte price of one.
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Re: My future with Moho

Postby InfoCentral » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:27 am

Not looking good but the move may be the only way to maintain the software cost effectively.

http://www.ocregister.com/2013/08/01/smith-micro-reports-loss-layoffs/

Currently Smith Micro stock is selling below $1 and if that continues they can be delisted on the stock market.

https://www.fool.com/knowledge-center/delisting-process-for-the-nasdaq.aspx

Current stock price.

https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SMSI:US
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Re: My future with Moho

Postby jahnocli » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:02 am

InfoCentral wrote:Not looking good but the move may be the only way to maintain the software cost effectively.

http://www.ocregister.com/2013/08/01/smith-micro-reports-loss-layoffs/

Currently Smith Micro stock is selling below $1 and if that continues they can be delisted on the stock market.

https://www.fool.com/knowledge-center/delisting-process-for-the-nasdaq.aspx

Current stock price.

https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SMSI:US

That's depressing reading. Hope they can turn it around.
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Re: My future with Moho

Postby cynthia » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:03 pm

I just happened on this news and am very sorry to read this, Mike. When I first bought Anime Studio in early 2012 and was having trouble installing it on my Mac, you wrote to me and created a patch so it would work on my system. I always appreciated how helpful and approachable you were. This apart from my respect for your brilliance as an animation software developer. It seems incredibly foolish for Smith Micro to let you and Victor go, but corporate decisions are just about money. We've all seen valuable people and projects axed again and again in the corporate world.

I really love the Moho software and it's just starting to feel second nature to me. I feel you've given me this tremendous gift with this software - I've wanted to do animation all my life and throughout my career as a fine artist and in children's publishing. Now with Moho, I can create puppet animation using psd files of scanned art. It's magic! So, like everyone else, I'll be watching for news.

Please keep posting about what you're doing and creating.
Warmest wishes and commiserations,
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Re: My future with Moho

Postby Telemacus » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:03 pm

Price has gone up (1.09 at present).
Now, I also wish to thank Mike for all his amazing work.
On the other hand, there are good reasons to be optimistic:

- Since you guys love the work Mike and others have done for over a decade, what's there to feel sorry about? in the worst case scenario, we've got a tool which has taken them more than 10 years to develop, and we can do amazing stuff with it! We should be cellebrating!
- Was AS11 really that bad? people like Jeff (aka Shownuff93) actually prefer it to Moho12 (myself probably included). My point is, new versions often do add cool new features, but most of us can get what we need out of the program already...
- Crisis are not necessarilly bad news... they bring about changes, new perspectives... who knows.
- Do we want people like Mike and Victor to stick around? are we willing to do something to achieve that? let's do it then! I'm willing! I don't know, add a donation button on this forum, let's open a patrion account, start a HQ video course (udemy or whatever).... etc. Let's do something. We users have more power than you think!

And if we aren't willing to do anything, we've got what we deserved, don't we? :wink:
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Re: My future with Moho

Postby CandyCoated » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:20 pm

I have only been using Moho off and on for about a year. Have used it on 3 paying projects. It's really comfortable and FUN!

The rigging is so intuitive and open-ended. There was not a lot of study to create a bee character with all 6 legs, wings, dynamic antannae, blinking eyes, etc.

I was able to rig and be animating within a day on that character.

I feel the software has some longevity, even if it didn't progress past version 12. I don't think that is the case though. Smith Micro may be struggling for now, but they've been around for a while. I feel optimistic (wishful thinking maybe?)

In either case, I regret I'm so late to the game. I wish I'd jumped on board much sooner.

Now where to find a good Lua scripter that can do the camera export to AE in reverse? (User copy and pastes camera data from AE into a text file, then the lua script would import the text file and parse it, assigning the movement to the Moho camera)

Sorry for slight derail...just really need that functionality!
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Re: My future with Moho

Postby DK » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:52 am

I believe the family of Moho that has developed alongside with the product over so many years is something that may be endangered of being taken for granted. A Lot of software products would just die for a forum like this and it's many long time dedicated users so willing to share and offer advice on a daily basis. Imagine how much it would cost if they had to pay people to do that ;)

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Re: My future with Moho

Postby pwaikamp » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:41 am

Software development is not a field I'm familiar with, as well as copyright issues on the business level, so as an enthusiast and a simple user I would ask if a new open sourse tool could be similar to MOHO/AS, with similar features and concepts, or it should be totally rebuilt, starting from the scratch...
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