Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

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Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby thewalkerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:41 pm

I tried activating Sub-frame Motion Blur in an animated tree, and some things didn't render properly.. ...the Switch layer I had set to close the eyes, with some dynamic bones making some fruits swing on the tree didn't show as they should. When disableling motion blur it renders properly though.

Anyone has some ideas to help?

Images showing the issues are below. Thank you

*(Forum's image preview is'nt showing the whole img, so I'm just linking it)

https://imgur.com/a/nEgjE

https://imgur.com/a/H2wjp
Last edited by thewalkerd on Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby chucky » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:04 pm

When rendering, if there's any doubt , turn off multi threading :D
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby thewalkerd » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:37 pm

chucky wrote:When rendering, if there's any doubt , turn off multi threading :D


Thanks for answering me. hum... just tested rendering without multi-threading.. got the same result. Weird, I'm not sure why both dynamic Bones and the eye Switch layer don't shows up, only when activating the sub-frame Motion Blur in the Main Bone Layer..

(I've also updated the image links in the OP, just to make sure they were accessible, since they didn't shown up properly for me, early today)
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby thewalkerd » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:15 pm

Update: if I also activate Motion blur in the Abacateira.psd folder, or in the abacates layer (can be seen in the OP image linked), then the image is shown properly rendered. But ONLY if I render one such image with Ctrl+R. If I render an image sequence or a mp4, then it gets weird:

- With multi threading off, the fruits don't swing.

- With multi threading on, they do swing, but wrong. They swing in the oposite direction that they should, and the swing itself has a very small duration, compared with the Preview play from the software.

Another weird thing happens too.. the closed eye image actually shows up properly in the renders after doing the above.. ..I have no clue why, since the closed eye layer isn't in the Abacateira.psd folder at all... It seems like all this problems are related to the Dynamic Bones and it's related layers.

But yeah... this is all I was able to do
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby synthsin75 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:36 pm

Preview play in the workspace or preview animation? I ask because dynamic bones often will not behave the same in the workspace, depending on things like zoom and if you have "Allow frame skipping" enabled.
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby chucky » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:22 am

Yep rendering is different to the workspace display, Obviously the workspace display is never going to be the full render , I am now confused about what is not working and when.
When you press play, make sure frame skipping is off and keep in mind the results will ne slower, turns of brushes and shape effects in the display to speed up playback.
Also make note , I do notice a ( new ) bug with particles , that don't play back properly from frame 0, that could be the same with dynamics.... maybe?

You say with multi threading off the fruit don't swing, what in a rendered animation from the export?
I would need to see the file, clearly something may be going wrong for you, but that may be compounded by how Moho is being used.
Not to say that is your fault, issues with playback aren't straight forward.
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby thewalkerd » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:54 am

synthsin75 wrote:Preview play in the workspace or preview animation? I ask because dynamic bones often will not behave the same in the workspace, depending on things like zoom and if you have "Allow frame skipping" enabled.

The Preview play in the workspace (spacebar), not the preview animation (shift+ctrl+R).
Right now the way the dynamic bones behave during Preview play in the workspace is very close (or the same) to how it behaves in the rendered video or png sequence, when exported with motion blur off. The problem comes from the cases with motion blur on only.

I haven't tried during a preview animation actually, because I was already rendering it to check the results. But if it's useful for your analysis or to test something, tell me I I'll do it to see what happens too.

I can post some videos too, or other things if it's useful for your understanding of the problem also. Just ask if needed.

chucky wrote:Yep rendering is different to the workspace display, Obviously the workspace display is never going to be the full render , I am now confused about what is not working and when.
When you press play, make sure frame skipping is off and keep in mind the results will ne slower, turns of brushes and shape effects in the display to speed up playback.
Also make note , I do notice a ( new ) bug with particles , that don't play back properly from frame 0, that could be the same with dynamics.... maybe?

You say with multi threading off the fruit don't swing, what in a rendered animation from the export?
I would need to see the file, clearly something may be going wrong for you, but that may be compounded by how Moho is being used.
Not to say that is your fault, issues with playback aren't straight forward.


Issues appear in the final render, in situation with motion blur on (probably caused by dynamic bones unintended behavior).
Workspace display seems ok. As I said, it matches well with the final render, when not using motion blur (I can record the workspace playback if needed too).

- with multi threading off the fruit don't swing in the final render. The behavior is normal in workspace playback.
- the layers can be seen in the OP image, but I'll see if I can share the file.. (I need to check if I can.. it's part of a project I'm working on, where I need to animate multiple plants. I have some of them rigged and with some animation, but all present this same issue).
- heh I'm hoping that it's my fault, cause that way, fixing would be easier than dealing with bugs in the software.
Last edited by thewalkerd on Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby synthsin75 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:04 am

Like Chucky said, the file would be the easiest to troubleshoot (even if you have to delete everything except one of each element giving you problems).
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby thewalkerd » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:08 am

synthsin75 wrote:(even if you have to delete everything except one of each element giving you problems).

yup, if I can't share the file as is, I will at least do that.
I'll post the file here for analysis when I get back to work in some hours from now.
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby thewalkerd » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:30 pm

chucky wrote:I would need to see the file, clearly something may be going wrong for you, but that may be compounded by how Moho is being used.


synthsin75 wrote:Like Chucky said, the file would be the easiest to troubleshoot


here is the file: test tree.zip

The images used come from a psd, that's also included. Thank you for the help.
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby hayasidist » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:30 pm

well - I've just run 3 renders to png -- one with blur on and one with blur off both multithread and one blur off single thread-- and on a frame by frame comparison the only difference I've noticed is the blur -- eyes are closed and fruit swing direction and magnitudes look to be the same.

however I have noticed that the workspace displays different results depending on the direction (and rate?) at which you scrub the timeline. (I've noticed that particles also show "odd" behaviour when scrubbing forwards or backwards.) So, on the face of it, I'd say this was a workspace display issue rather than a render issue -- one more "limitation" to add to the list where workspace is not a totally reliable predication of rendered output?
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby thewalkerd » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:12 pm

hayasidist wrote:well - I've just run 3 renders to png -- one with blur on and one with blur off both multithread and one blur off single thread-- and on a frame by frame comparison the only difference I've noticed is the blur -- eyes are closed and fruit swing direction and magnitudes look to be the same.

however I have noticed that the workspace displays different results depending on the direction (and rate?) at which you scrub the timeline. (I've noticed that particles also show "odd" behaviour when scrubbing forwards or backwards.) So, on the face of it, I'd say this was a workspace display issue rather than a render issue -- one more "limitation" to add to the list where workspace is not a totally reliable predication of rendered output?


Your post actually helped me a lot.
The thing was, as I pointed before, I was getting 3 different render results depending on different configurations. The worksplace playback was normal though (spacebar). I was not getting it... ..that's when I thought that the software could be outdated, and guess what? that was the case! I've disabled the auto updates a long time ago, and forgot about it.

In the end, the issues that I pointed before, they were as I can see, bugs related to some older Moho 12 version. After updating here, all this weird renders stoped happening and the Dynamic bones actually behaved as they should, even with motion blur on.

Thank you for your test, that made me realise the issue. And thanks to all the replyers
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Re: Sub-frame Motion Blur - not rendering Dynamic Bones

Postby chucky » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:40 pm

G'morning Everybody, hey I'm glad you got it sorted. Great news.
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