Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

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Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby rafael » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:16 am



When I release the mouse while using the blob brush, the viewer zoom level suddenly snaps to a different value. It doesn't happen with the pencil tool, just the blob brush. It's effectively made frame-by-frame impossible.

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6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby rafael » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:42 am

Well, not sure if this is the problem, but I noticed there are some mysterious blobs really far away from the bounds of my canvas. Maybe Moho was trying to get them into view as well? In which case the bug might not be the zooming, but those mystery blobs...
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby hayasidist » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:52 am

yes! it's a real PITA -- see also viewtopic.php?f=13&t=30066

there's been a formal issue report about this for some time (Feb 2015!! - Mantis 33428 for those who care about such things). I'll bump it.
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby Greenlaw » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:29 pm

Yeah, it's a known issue. The 'auto-zoom' is very annoying and it's one of a handful of problems with Moho's freehand tools that make me shy away from them. It's a shame because the devs were making steady progress with these tools a while back. I'm hoping the devs can get back to working on these tools or replacing them with something better in next major upgrade.
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby rafael » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:10 pm

2015!? Yikes, have they abandoned it?

This is pretty disappointing, frame by frame was one of the selling points that convinced me to go Pro. I'm literally going have to use Animate (flash) to finish this cartoon off...
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby Greenlaw » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:23 am

The freehand drawing and FBF tools was improved a lot for Moho 12 but, IMO, it is still a weakness in an otherwise excellent program. I occasionally use Moho's FBF for FX elements but not so much for detailed subjects like characters. To me, the Freehand Pen behavior is unpredictable and requires too much editing after drawing each line. And then there's the auto-zoom problem we've been discussing. I'm sure the devs are working hard to improve Moho's freehand drawing and the FBF workflow but I wouldn't expect to see that until the next major release.

(FYI, I'm just guessing. I trust the devs to keep improving Moho in the future but I have no knowledge about what's actually planned for Moho 13.)

In the meantime, I've been using other programs to create FBF elements and merging that in Moho or AE projects. At work, we have Adobe Animate CC and TB Harmony for that stuff. At home, I've been using TV Paint 11 and experimenting with CACAni.

I'm also keeping an eye on Animation Paper. It's not out yet but the concept video looks good, and the program is supposed to go into public beta later this year. Oh, yeah, and it's really cheap too!

That said, if the Moho devs ever get the FBF workflow up to snuff, I'd use it...a lot. :)
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby Greenlaw » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:43 am

Oh, just to be clear, I don't think the Freehand tool is useless. Freehand is actually very useful for marking up frames, and for roughing out elements before I construct them using the traditional Moho tools. FBF is also useful for quickly blocking out a complicated animation and then animating on top of the FBF sequence.

(When I'm marking up later frames, I temporarily disable Enable Drawing Tools Only On Frame 0 and then copy the keyframe to frame 0. This is especially useful when making a visual reference to trace from when editing an Action.)
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby rafael » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:19 am

Waaaaiiiiit a minute, but if I wanted to use the other draw tools to do the splash I have to draw the splash on frame 0 without being able to reference the position of the character?
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby Greenlaw » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:45 pm

rafael wrote:Waaaaiiiiit a minute, but if I wanted to use the other draw tools to do the splash I have to draw the splash on frame 0 without being able to reference the position of the character?

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand the question. You can draw on any frame if you disable the Only Frame 0 option, and you can copy the keys for that frame to any other frame (it might help to use Freeze Points before copying if you have keyframes for that layer elsewhere on the timeline.) I sometimes do that to sketch a visual/positional reference for the current frame, but I'll also typically copy it to frame 0 to make sure it's available to all frames, including Actions. This is useful during rigging and animation, and can be especially useful when setting up Smart Bone Actions because Actions have a different timeline from the Mainline. That said, I don't recommend leaving this feature off all the time because it becomes too easy to mess up a drawing if you really meant to draw in only the setup frame.

(BTW, when you have Enable in Only Frame 0 turned off, enabling Highlight Frame 0 can help you keep track of where you are.)

Another trick is to use Onion Skinning. I'll typically have it set to wire mode and to show on top of the current frame.

I also like to use the open source Epic Pen drawing tool, which lets you 'mark up' the screen like a dry erase marker. Alternativly you can use actual dry erase markers, but I prefer the digital version because it won't damage the anti-glare coating on your screen.

Sometimes I'll also use a Switch Layer and drop reference drawings and screen markups in that. This way, I can call up anything in the switch layer at any frame.

All of these are pretty good tricks for sketching visual references, some are better than others depending on the situation.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby rafael » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:05 pm

You can draw on any frame if you disable the Only Frame 0 option


THANK YOU!!! That is exactly what I needed.
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby chucky » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:09 am

Yes , that blob zoom is rubbish, there are a few tricks to using freehand, but 12 is much better . I have been using freehand quite a bit since the improvements. All the characters I made for the retro space pack where drawn very quickly in freehand as were the fbf parts. I do plenty of effects with fbf and freehand. Remember to use gpu, merge strokes and take off auto weld and taper ends off. ...off unless you really need it. You can always weld crossings with the select tool later.
I really wish the freehand was as good as it could be, it seems even now, bugs creep into it ( I've just found that taper start keeps turning itself back on).
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby Greenlaw » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:01 am

Hi, Chucky. Just wondering, why do you suggest enabling Use GPU? Is it to speed up textured brushes?

Every now and then I come back to Freehand and Blob Brush, trying different approaches and settings but I eventually get frustrated with them. I wish the freehand vector tools behaved more like their counterparts in Clip Studio Paint.

For everyday work in Moho, I'm still doing everything with the click-and-drag tools. That's fine and even preferable for deforming artwork but sometimes I just want to quickly draw an element (especially if it's non-deforming) and be done with it. But whenever I use the freehand tools, I seem to spend way too much time editing and correcting the lines, which kinda defeats the purpose of the tools to me. With that much editing, I feel I may as well stick with click-and-drag.

I think I'll give Moho's freehand tools another shot this afternoon though. I've already started using other programs for freehand and FBF elements, but for convenience sake, I still want to make this work natively in Moho somehow.

If you have any other tips for freehand drawing in Moho, please post. Thanks! :)
Last edited by Greenlaw on Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Moho Pro 12.2 - Blob Brush Changes Screen Zoom

Postby chucky » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:57 am

Hi Dennis,
Have a go at scribbling random stuff, keep scribbling and watch for the 'bug out". With gpu off this will happen faster as I remember.
I have actually had a couple of months away from Moho , as I am bracing myself for the next Moho onslaught.
Most of the present checkboxes in Moho seem to be rigged to ruin the drawing experience. I think they are defaulted to on just to show off features. I think they should be set to give the best drawing experience and let users discover the deeper secrets later.
Maybe we could petition the powers that be.
A long time ago I came up with what I saw as a really sensible plan to change the whole drawing approach, I think it's lost in the mantis annals somewhere.
The way things are now I have to assume it will be little more than an archaeological relic.
"Styles" and the tools bar are due for an overhaul I think, much of the fundamental faults in freehand have been largely addressed -'besides issues with blob and fill, now it is time to look at the UI like an artist , not a programmer. By that / mean, test it in the workflow, not as it works one stroke at a time.
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