Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

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Syncs
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Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Syncs » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:41 pm

My Moho keeps crashing randomly even crashes when I'm doing basic things like saving. My rigs are fairly complex but anime studio 11 can handle them no problem.

Can someone tell me if Anyone is looking into the persistent crashes within Moho, are the developers working on a fix, it's getting ridiculous now, I'm losing work time an money on a broken product that cost more then previous version that work fine.

Also are you aware that they are things that can be done with bones in anime studio That can't be done in Moho?? Seriously.

Thinking of quitting completely and buying a product like toon boom which I hear is stable
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jahnocli
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by jahnocli » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:56 pm

You could always try saving in Anime Studio 11 format and working with that, providing you're not using too many Moho 12-specific features...
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Víctor Paredes » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Could you give some details about the crashes? it's impossible for people in the forum to help you if we have no info.
Syncs wrote:Also are you aware that they are things that can be done with bones in anime studio That can't be done in Moho?? Seriously.
Please tell us what you can't do with Moho. I'm very sure version 12 can do everything previous versions could (and much more, of course).
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SimplSam
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by SimplSam » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:29 pm

Also... have you reported these issues to SM directly? and provided them with your project files, computer config info etc.?
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Greenlaw » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:01 pm

Syncs wrote:Also are you aware that they are things that can be done with bones in anime studio That can't be done in Moho?? Seriously.

Thinking of quitting completely and buying a product like toon boom which I hear is stable
Sorry to hear you're still having crashing. I'm not sure what could be causing it. There was another thread about crashing created earlier--you probably checked there already but just thought to mention it.

Like Victor, I'm curious to hear what those things are too. We've been using Moho 12 at the studio where I work for quite some time now and I can't imagine going back to ASP 11. I've grown too dependent on many new rigging tricks I can do in Moho 12 that I can't possibly do in ASP 11.

FYI, we use Toon Boom Harmony as well. I won't try to stop you from switching but you should know that the two programs are really quite different. Harmony's strength is FBF, and IMO it does feature better drawing and frame managing tools than Moho. But for 'puppet-style' animation, Harmony is actually quite weak in comparison because it lacks many powerful rigging features that we take for granted in Moho.

Anyway, I hope you figure out what's causing the crashes. :(
Last edited by Greenlaw on Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Syncs
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Syncs » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:13 am

Thank you for all your responses, today I lost 3hours of work, because Moho crashed while saving which meant it saved the file as 0 bytes, so I was quite frustrated.
Don't get me wrong, I love Moho and the improvements over Anime studio, if I could do with out Moho and go back to anime studio I would but I really like the Bézier curves and the issue of the masking exclude strokes white line problem have been fixed so I really want Moho to work I appreciate what the developers have done.
I have tried to export the files to anime studio 11 and they work fine but the white lines show where I use making and ruins the look.

I have a i5 laptop
Windows 10
Should be more then capable of running this

Ok I'll try to explain the best I can, I'm not sure if any of you have seen any of my rigs I've posted but they include body turns and other things. Victor iin response to what can't be done in Moho but can be anime studio There are translation issues within smartbones actions that break the rig if used but it dint happen in anime studio trust me Ive tried and I've tried, I think this is the issue with my anime studio rigs being imported into Moho 12 and the crashes for that , which meant I've had to start my rigs again in Moho which is fine but now these new rigs will be working fine then it'll just crash for some reason and then that's it, it's like the files corrupted. I've learnt to have multi files now and save after every minor change but that can't be right.
Examples of crashes
All my rigs I import from anime studio 11 crashes Moho
If I ctrl z (undo) twice in a row it crashes
To be fair it crashes so randomly I can't even tell I try trouble shooting I've looked in the forums, I've rebooted, re Installed, removed later translations sometimes it even crashes while trying to trouble shoot.

I haven't reported to SM because there are enough people who have complained about it in the forums so I think they know.

The thing is I really want this software to work I'm in talks with some people who are interested in what my rigs can do and as stated toon boom isn't ideal for puppet style however I can't try to convincingly Or expect them to convert if Moho crashes all the time It looks unprofessional.

I can provide files if needed, I'm also going to do a video as it's easily replicated.

Thanks again for suggestions and responses
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synthsin75
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by synthsin75 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:49 am

A few standard things to try:
Disable auto-save
Make sure you're updated to v12.2
Immediately save any v11 file (imported or open to work in v12) as a Moho12 file and reopen before working with it

Are you using any third party tools?
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Greenlaw » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:28 am

Also, while this won't help with crashing, you should be making incremental saves as you work. I do this regardless of which program I'm working in and whether the program supports autosave or not. This way, I very rarely lose more than 20-30 minutes of work due to a crash or a serious user error.
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Syncs
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Syncs » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:59 am

I save after every small change now but sometimes it crashes during the save and if that happens it seems to wipe the file.

I've updated to 12.2

I'm maybe thinking it's my laptop but anime studio works fine and all the rigs I export from Moho to anime studios work fine in ASP

All my other software work fine

Not using any third party scripts

Again thanks for the suggestions
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synthsin75
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by synthsin75 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:04 am

Syncs wrote:I save after every small change now but sometimes it crashes during the save and if that happens it seems to wipe the file.
That's what makes me suspect auto-save. Maybe its trying to write the file at the same time?

You might try my auto-save script: https://sites.google.com/site/synthsin/ ... ects=0&d=1
It won't try to save while you're saving the file and it can automatically handle saving many, incremented files, so you have more backups.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Greenlaw » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:16 am

Syncs wrote:I save after every small change now but sometimes it crashes during the save and if that happens it seems to wipe the file.
I meant incremental saving.

It's not unusual for me to create dozens of versions of a scene before I'm done with it, whether I'm working on a commercial project or a personal one. When versioning up a scene, I might name it something like s01_title_001.moho, s01_title_002.moho, s01_title_003.moho, etc., for example.

Also, I save the incremented versions in a 'work' directory, and keep the final 'master' version outside of this directory. When I'm done with a new version, I'll save that over the 'master' version, and then render the 'master'. This way, when I render the file or layer comps from the file, it will overwrite previous frames rendered from the files instead of creating new files with a different name. This makes sure the compositing program (if you use one,) is always picking up the latest version of the scene. (This is actually one of Moho's really annoying things--it should allow you to define a default output filename and directory in the projects settings window.)

Anyway, if Moho crashes, this way I always have the latest version or at least the previous version to fall back on. Typically, I save an incremental version every few minutes, after I've made a significant change to the file. I do this out of habit in pretty much any program I'm working in, whether is Moho, Photoshop, After Effects, whatever.

While I'm working on a given scene, if I start to get too much file clutter in the scene directory, I'll move some of the older versions to an 'old' folder. When the scene is completed, I'll delete the 'old' folder and keep only a few of most recent versions for archival purposes or in case I need to go back and change something else in the animation.

Again, this won't help for crashing, but it will ensure you don't ever lose much work.
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SimplSam
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by SimplSam » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:12 am

synthsin75 wrote:You might try my auto-save script: https://sites.google.com/site/synthsin/ ... ects=0&d=1
That's a neat script. I already made a Save++ tool script, but automation is a good addition.

I also have all my 'creative' documents/projects in a Google Drive folder - which has several added benefits:

- Syncs (no pun intended) in the background to cloud/offsite storage
- Acts as a backup for Disaster Recovery
- Files are accessible remotely for 'mobile working'
- Files are easily shareable with 3rd parties
- Specific folders can be included/excluded (some other services let you also choose specific file types)
- Files are automatically versioned. G/Drive auto keeps a copy of every save for up to 30 days. You can also mark certain versions to keep forever.
- Deleted files are available forever in the G/Drive Trash folder - until permanently deleted from trash.
- Files in trash can be viewed, downloaded or recovered to original file location (with a modified name - if same named new file already exists)
- Files recovered from trash retain their version history
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Greenlaw » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:27 am

D'oh! I forgot about your script Wes. Adding it now...I'm sure I'll find it useful. :)
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by Syncs » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:19 pm

Thanks i will check out the script, however I've never used scripts before

here is a video showing some of the issues

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jahnocli
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Re: Moho 12.2 still crashes constantly

Post by jahnocli » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:26 pm

This is just an observation. I can appreciate that you are frustrated and fed up with the software, but if your example video is titled "Why I'm quitting Moho", that's poor psychology if you are asking for help. It's difficult to see why people might want to help you if you're not going to be using the software in future. Have you contacted user support? They might have something constructive to offer.
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
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