Can't delete noisy keyframes

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jezjones29
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Can't delete noisy keyframes

Post by jezjones29 »

I'm not sure if this has been reported, I did a quick search and couldn't find it.
(I've only tested this on AS 11.2.1, Windows 10)

1. Set the default Interpolation to ''Noisy' on the timeline
2. Create a new document (Ctrl+N)
3. Now try and delete any of the default keyframes on frame 0!

Image

You can delete them if you change them to 'Smooth'. But 'Visibility' can only be changed to 'Step' though.
I don't think all these keyframes should be created.
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synthsin75
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Re: Can't delete noisy keyframes

Post by synthsin75 »

I'm sure this is intentional. Noisy is the only interpolation type that will show animation with only frame zero keyframes (which technically always exist, even if you don't see them). So if those keyframes are not shown, the user would not know why every channel is jittering around. Besides, noisy is an odd default interpolation to choose.

Channels like visibility and shape order only have step (and cycled step) interpolation, because they are either one way or another will no available inbetween to interpolate. Changing all the noisy keys to some other interpolation hides them, since they no long have animated effects on frames other than zero.
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jezjones29
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Re: Can't delete noisy keyframes

Post by jezjones29 »

If it was intentional then the 'visibility' keyframe shouldn't be set to 'noisy' - which suggests it's more of a bug.
I think the new keyframes in the new document should be 'smooth', but any new keyframes that I create be what I have set as the default.

Here is another problem:
1. Set the default interpolation to 'smooth'
2. draw a rectangle on frame 0
3. move to frame 1
4. move one point so it creates a new keyframe
5. change the keyframes (@frame 0 and 1) of this point to 'noisy'
6. press Enter to deselect the shape - the timeline should show frame 0 as smooth.
7. Delete all the keyframes, then play.
... now there are no keyframes but the shape shakes. Selecting the shape will show no keyframes, it will only show you the correct 'noisy' keyframe if you select the correct point.

I've helped a few people now fix this problem so I know it is an issue.
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synthsin75
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Re: Can't delete noisy keyframes

Post by synthsin75 »

Yeah, it does *seem* inconsistent. But if the user deletes keyframes, shouldn't they be aware of what they're doing? OTOH, wouldn't a user be confused with keyframes they can't delete (like in your default interpolation example)? Would it be better to not allow users to make frame zero keys noisy at all? Then if they want noisy, they'd be forced to place frame 1 keyframes, but then they'd wonder why frame zero keys have no noisy option.

Seems like any way you go, you're likely to confuse users who do not understand AS. Any one of these is likely to have newer users claiming there's a bug. I really think the current behavior is preferred.
1. Default interpolation needs to show keyframes because the user has done nothing to set those keys and would have trouble finding why things are noisy with no keyframes.
2. When a user deletes keyframes, they expect the keyframes to be deleted. If they aren't they would have your same issue with #1, but with less indication of why the keys cannot be deleted.
3. The technical reason why you might make noisy unavailable to frame zero would not be clear to the user.

You can see which points are noisy by scrubbing/playing the timeline, and selecting them does show the frame zero key. The user really should be aware that they have a frame zero noisy key, and nothing in AS would lead them to believe that deleting a keyframe would automatically change an interpolation setting. So overall, I'd have to say the behavior is consistent with as much user expectation as it can be.

Unless you can describe a change that would not violate one of these user expectations:
1. Motion on the timeline without user action requires keyframe indication.
2. Except for #1, attempting to delete keyframes should consistently delete keyframes.
3. Interpolation options limited by channels type are consistent, but limited by frame is unexpected.


The only real bug I see is that default interpolation will give channels invalid interpolation settings. I will report this.
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