No keyframe auto poping bug.

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eric1223
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Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:35 am

No keyframe auto poping bug.

Post by eric1223 »

anime studio pro 10.1
windows 7

I have no keyframes set, but the the animation still pops at frame 1. Orginally, I had smartbones and a action set up, but I deleted them all because I've noticed something weird was going on. There was this animation I didnt set and it effected all of my other actions. I thought deleteing would help, but it didn't. here is the bug.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqu3hzataol6t9v/bug.anme
just go to frame one, and you will see what I mean.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/0716mx3j3vp4c ... %20S4.anme
and here where things act funny before i deleted it.
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: No keyframe auto poping bug.

Post by Víctor Paredes »

It's very weird and couldn't identify what was exactly the problem. It seems to be a bug.
Anyway, you can solve it this way:

- Select all bones
- Go to frame 1
- Select the Transform bone tool (if you are not in AS10, use the Scale Bone tool)
- Now set the scale of the bones to 1
- A new scale keys will be created in frame 1
- Select that keys and copy them
- Now go to frame zero and paste the keys
- The problem is solved (and now you can just erase the keys in frame 1)

For some reason, the bones were scaling even when they had no key. I will investigate more to see if I can get exactly what is going on. In the meanwhile, I hope this steps fix your issue.
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: No keyframe auto poping bug.

Post by Víctor Paredes »

Ok, I just identified the bug!
There are two values for the size of a bone: Length and Scale.
Length is the "real" size of the bone and Scale is a value in relation to that size. So, a scale value of 2, means the bone will be the 200% of the "real" size (length). So scale is something like the percentage of the length.

The problem is you copied a scale keyframe to frame zero. When you are on frame zero the software only shows you the length size, so, even when you have a scale percentage applied, it is not showed until you go to fame 1 or beyond.
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Moho Product Manager

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Rigged animation supervisor in My father's dragon - Lead Moho artist in Wolfwalkers - Cartoon Saloon - My personal Youtube Channel
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heyvern
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Re: No keyframe auto poping bug.

Post by heyvern »

Just to be clear This is NOT a bug.

I would hate to see this feature removed. I have been using it for a long time to do bone scale "offset" on frame 0.
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: No keyframe auto poping bug.

Post by Víctor Paredes »

heyvern wrote:Just to be clear This is NOT a bug.

I would hate to see this feature removed. I have been using it for a long time to do bone scale "offset" on frame 0.
Sorry, Vern, but I don't agree. To me it's clearly a bug.
You can use this bug as a feature, but the software doesn't allow you to "legally" modify the scale of a bone in frame zero. It's inconsistent to have two scale values at the same time and show only one. To me it's ok not to allow it, because you shouldn't have scale animation with no keyframe.

I understand you want to keep it. I like, for example, to use negative curvature even when it's not officially supported. But in that case, you can't create negative curvature at least you know exactly what are doing. That let the door open for "pro" users, but doesn't affect anyone else.
In this case, you have a "trick" that can cause problems to other users, so I'm on the idea of closing the "Copy Paste" door and make the "feature" more difficult to access, maybe only trough the Graph Mode.
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heyvern
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Re: No keyframe auto poping bug.

Post by heyvern »

selgin wrote:
heyvern wrote:Just to be clear This is NOT a bug.

I would hate to see this feature removed. I have been using it for a long time to do bone scale "offset" on frame 0.
Sorry, Vern, but I don't agree. To me it's clearly a bug.
You can use this bug as a feature, but the software doesn't allow you to "legally" modify the scale of a bone in frame zero. It's inconsistent to have two scale values at the same time and show only one. To me it's ok not to allow it, because you shouldn't have scale animation with no keyframe.

I understand you want to keep it. I like, for example, to use negative curvature even when it's not officially supported. But in that case, you can't create negative curvature at least you know exactly what are doing. That let the door open for "pro" users, but doesn't affect anyone else.
In this case, you have a "trick" that can cause problems to other users, so I'm on the idea of closing the "Copy Paste" door and make the "feature" more difficult to access, maybe only trough the Graph Mode.

Yes I agree with you 100%.

I think that anything that CAN be keyed on frame 0 by copy and paste should allow the TOOL to modify that value (or some other way?). In the past I would make changes to some of the core tools to allow the use of tools on "incorrect" frames (like bone strength and bone offset above frame 0).

My only concern would be old files if the "feature" was removed. If bone scale wouldn't work at all on frame 0 I have files that would break. As long as it continues to work I have no problem with how it works.
eric1223
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:35 am

Re: No keyframe auto poping bug.

Post by eric1223 »

selgin wrote:Ok, I just identified the bug!
There are two values for the size of a bone: Length and Scale.
Length is the "real" size of the bone and Scale is a value in relation to that size. So, a scale value of 2, means the bone will be the 200% of the "real" size (length). So scale is something like the percentage of the length.

The problem is you copied a scale keyframe to frame zero. When you are on frame zero the software only shows you the length size, so, even when you have a scale percentage applied, it is not showed until you go to fame 1 or beyond.
Thanks for explaining that to me and telling me how to fix that. When I copied values to 0, that was a accident, and I didn' t know that I did it. :oops:
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: No keyframe auto poping bug.

Post by Víctor Paredes »

eric1223 wrote:Thanks for explaining that to me and telling me how to fix that. When I copied values to 0, that was a accident, and I didn' t know that I did it. :oops:
Don't worry, the problem is about the software, not you. I'm glad yo help.
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Moho Product Manager

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Rigged animation supervisor in My father's dragon - Lead Moho artist in Wolfwalkers - Cartoon Saloon - My personal Youtube Channel
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