Reference Update Bug

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Reference Update Bug

Postby DK » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:47 am

Hi,
I came across this one yesterday while playing with reference updating on a character rig. I created a master file then imported the rig by reference into another project as a slave copy. I then proceeded to change the master file and update the slave to make sure everything worked fine. It seemed to work great until I changed a normal fill to a fill with spots. The slave copy just would not update to reflect the new fill no matter how many times I tried. Even closing down the program did not work. I know this is bad timing but are we still reporting these bugs? Can someone confirm this for me as a bug? Should I be worried? I certainly will not be losing any sleep over it if it is a bug that's for sure.

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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby synthsin75 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:01 pm

I don't think unanimated properties, like changing fill effect, are kept track of by a reference, so it doesn't look to update those.
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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby Greenlaw » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:32 pm

I've been working with References at work a lot lately and, if the issue isn't as Wes described, I think I know what's happening in your scene:

Check the Fill Channel for the reference that's refusing to update. If you hover over it, does it say 'Channel Not Referenced?' If so, right-click over the channel icon and sync it manually. After that, the channel should Update when you use the Update Reference command. (Wes helped me figure that one out.) If that doesn't work, it's probably what he said in the above post.

If what I described does work for you, here's what little I know about the issue:

For some reason, when I'm working with references, some of the referenced layers and referenced imports may get these randomly activated channels. When they appear, these channels are typically not in use by the source file or layer so they appear benign. But if we happen to keyframe them in the source file or layer after the scene has been distributed to other artists for animation, these 'mystery keys' can block the Update command for those channels. It's very annoying when this happens because the 'Not Referenced' channels are not obvious until you run into a problem, and then you have to hunt them down. This can be time-consuming with a complex rig or scene.

It's bad enough when this happens to a single user with a small project, but it can be very disruptive to a team of animators on a bigger production because a TD will then needs to go around and check everybody's scenes.

Fortunately, it doesn't happen often, but I see it often enough that I consider it a serious bug. I really hope they can get this one fixed ASAP. :(
Last edited by Greenlaw on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby DK » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:07 am

Thanks for the replies.
I ended up updating the texture fill manually, like I said it was no big issue in this case but it has potential to be a pita :)
Greenlaw, when you say "hover over" where are you talking about? If it wasn't referenced in the menu wouldn't it show a broken icon? I tried hovering over everything but couldn't see any text that read anything at all?

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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby synthsin75 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:15 am

Dennis was talking about hovering over the channel icon.
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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby DK » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:26 am

Hi Wes,
No probs. Can't see anything about a broken link so it must be the channel.
Thanks for the help guys ;)

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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby Greenlaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:28 am

Yeah, sorry about that. I meant in the timeline over on the left edge. If you see unexpected icons there that you haven't keyframed, hover over them. It will probably say 'Not Referenced'. Right-clicking over the channel icon will pop-up options for the channel, like Sync Channel To Original.

Be aware that if you did intentionally keyframe that channel in the scene, that icon should be there and it shouldn't be synced unless you really want to reset it to adopt the original's keyframes. If you sync it then, you'll lose your unique keyframes for that channel.
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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby DK » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:09 am

Hi Greenlaw.
There are no key frames at all in the file as I import direct from a clean master file. There are no key frames in the fill channel to hover over so I guess it's pointing to Wes's feedback. Very handy to know about the key frame issue to though ;)

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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby Greenlaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:28 am

Sure. Just to be clear, you won't see any keyframes. The thing to look for is if the Fill channel is active in the reference, even though there is no keyframe for that channel. Normally, the channel should not be active if there are no keyframes in it.

And, again just to be clear, this isn't specifically a 'Fill' bug...I get it with all sorts of random channels...like 'Motor', for example. It can appear with any channel from the original. What you need to watch out for is the appearance of the unkeyed channel, knowing that you did not keyframe that channel in the original.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby DK » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:31 am

The fill channel is completely blanked out and not even listed. I'm assuming this indicate it's not the culprit?
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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby Greenlaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:45 am

Yeah, if you don't see it in the timeline at all, that's not the problem.

Sorry, I probably made this more confusing...but IF you do run into that problem, now you know what to do about it. :D
Last edited by Greenlaw on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby DK » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:47 am

Absolutely. This has been really useful thanks to you both :)

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Re: Reference Update Bug

Postby synthsin75 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:20 am

Always glad to help, David.
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