Keep in mind when posting.

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Keep in mind when posting.

Postby chucky » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:26 am

A little humour for jaded artists and enthusiastic clients, :lol:
Sequential offender.
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Re: Keep in mind when posting.

Postby dueyftw » Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:53 pm

I disagree with the attitude that one doesn't work for free. From personal experience sometimes you need to find out what the person is capable of. If you ask a personal trainer to watch him or her working with some one else to see what is style of training is and they say 'No way' I'm not going to show you how I work. I would find someone else. The problem is that clients don't know the difference between reference and work. If a person says I need 300 mocaps done from a video reference, here is one video, please mocap it. I would spend 30 minutes mocaping the first 3 to 4 seconds, for free. Because 300 custom bvh files are not cheap.

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Re: Keep in mind when posting.

Postby Greenlaw » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:00 pm

It probably depends on what you're selling and what the 'free' work is costing you personally. Free work is never free when you're the one doing the work.

I don't accept spec assignments myself but one studio I was with occasionally accepted spec assignments to reel in a big job. More than once we never heard from the client again and months later we'd see our designs and concepts being executed by another studio for that client.

I'm not saying offering 'free' samples never pays off but it's certainly a big risk to take. IMO, working on spec also sends a bad message to the client about the value you place on your own talent, time, skill level and equipment.

IMO, a demo reel of past work and maybe a behind-the-scenes video to explain exactly what you did for prior paying assignments is a more effective tool for attracting a client. And if that's not good enough for the client, their response should be viewed as a red flag--these are not people you will like working for. If they're already being cheap and difficult before they hire you, they're probably going to be a lot worse throughout the job.

If the client really wants you to do the work, it should be because they've seen your past work and liked it, and they will respect you more if they have to pay you to do it for them.

G.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Keep in mind when posting.

Postby funksmaname » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:47 pm

dueyftw wrote: I would spend 30 minutes mocaping the first 3 to 4 seconds, for free.


To a certain extent it depends how new/keen you are to the type of work you're trying to get - if you can't show previous work of a type of job you might do a small part to prove you can do it - however, there really is no reason why a client who might want to have 300 videos mocapped would be unwilling to pay for the first 30 minutes of work to show them what they're going to expect to get. If you've NO experience in the industry at all, and can show NO quality of work, then a free proof is fair enough.

I'm with Greenlaw on this one; if a client, especially one who is about to spend a LOT of money with you, is unwiling to pay for a short test, it should be seen as a red flag!

Allegory (and kind of from a client perspective - if they don't think this way, you probably don't want to work for them :P):
I'm in the market for a new car at the moment, when I find one I like I'd be happy to pay a mechanic or AA to do a full test of the car. If it turns out to be a dud, I'll be glad I paid to see what I would have got than just gone ahead and put down the money only for it to fall apart. A free test drive is not enough to give me the confidence the car is going to perform.
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Re: Keep in mind when posting.

Postby dueyftw » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:55 pm

funksmaname wrote:
dueyftw wrote: I would spend 30 minutes mocaping the first 3 to 4 seconds, for free.


To a certain extent it depends how new/keen you are to the type of work you're trying to get - if you can't show previous work of a type of job you might do a small part to prove you can do it - however, there really is no reason why a client who might want to have 300 videos mocapped would be unwilling to pay for the first 30 minutes of work to show them what they're going to expect to get. If you've NO experience in the industry at all, and can show NO quality of work, then a free proof is fair enough.

I'm with Greenlaw on this one; if a client, especially one who is about to spend a LOT of money with you, is unwiling to pay for a short test, it should be seen as a red flag!

Allegory (and kind of from a client perspective - if they don't think this way, you probably don't want to work for them :P):
I'm in the market for a new car at the moment, when I find one I like I'd be happy to pay a mechanic or AA to do a full test of the car. If it turns out to be a dud, I'll be glad I paid to see what I would have got than just gone ahead and put down the money only for it to fall apart. A free test drive is not enough to give me the confidence the car is going to perform.


I should add that this job was posted on a freelancer or up-work site. I offered the 3 to 4 second demo to land the job. I charge 30 dollars an hour and let the potential client know that. Given that each of the mocaps was going to be around 8 to 12 seconds the client knew that if I did this for them it would get every expensive, more than the 2 to 3 grand they were willing to pay for. Because I let them know up front they found someone else and never contacted me for a demo.

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Re: Keep in mind when posting.

Postby synthsin75 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:10 am

Yeah, working for free is a substitute for having no work history and no previous work to show in a particular field. A show reel or previous client references should cover this. If a client isn't convinced to pay from these, they are cheap jerks who probably think their nephew could do the job and will never pay you a living wage. Take Duey's example of 30 minutes free. That doesn't sound like much, and is reasonable for the first client with no previous work to show. But after that, you're talking a free 30 minutes per client with no guarantee of getting the job. That can add up, and if these clients can find that deal from enough people, they could potentially get the whole job done for free. So it's not even just about the individual artist. If there are enough people willing to work on spec, it hurts everyone in the field, by reducing wages. After all, if one person can afford to do it for free, it must be super easy. The work is its own reward, right?
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