Anyone interested in teaming up?

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steveryan2
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:46 pm

Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

jahnocli wrote:Steve,
Calm down -- it's not my intention to start a flame war or anything! I've worked on your project -- I continue to work on your project, amongst other stuff that I'm doing. I wasn't 'hurt' by you mis-spelling my username, I was amazed you got it wrong when all you had to do was copy it. I guess I have been expecting some kind of production blog or something detailing progress; I'd be interested to see what you are doing and how the project is coming together.
I appreciate that; and definitely appreciate your contributions as well. In fact you have contributed more than anyone.

As far as a production blog, I would like to hear what others think of this idea. What would you like to see provided in a blog that isn't already included in the forum posts? Is it that the forum posts are too random and you want to see organization? I ask because I have already posted:

- Story outline
- Shot list
- Storyboard (actually mostly provided by another contributor)
- Character descriptions

You have provided
- Character designs (human/zombie)
- Prop/weapon designs
- Poses

Iwaxana has provided
- Color pallet examples

Dueyftw has provided
- Vectorized heads of two humans

Baphomet has provided
- Examples of backgrounds done in 3D
steveryan2
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

lwaxana wrote:Given that the forum doesn't have a well-known precedent for a collaboration this big, and that roles and responsibilities were not defined from the beginning, it's natural that participants' expectations might differ.

This is an opportunity to define those roles and responsibilities. Once they are more clearly defined for participants and the project manager, that will help people decide if they want to participate and how much.
Well said and good idea. I went to the link but wasn't able to locate the Roles and Responsibilities part you mentioned. I even searched for it using several criteria. That would be something that would be very useful; not just for this specific project, but for any future projects of collaboration.

It appears that the varying expectations is exactly what happened here. My own expectations were perhaps more "loose" than others wanted and expected. Understand that this comes from my not wanting to pressure anyone into doing tasks, or completing voluntary tasks on strict timelines. I wrongly assumed that this extended to me as well. Sorry if it made anyone feeling like they were left hanging. I'd like to use this opportunity to understand what you think the expectations should be as we move forward.
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lwaxana
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by lwaxana »

The main question I would have before putting a lot of work into a collaboration would be whether or not the project manager is taking responsibility to complete the project even if they are the only one left working on it and will they be steadily working on it throughout. I think this might be the root cause of the differing expectations. I wonder if Jahnocli's suggestion for a blog may actually be that he wants to know that steady progress is happening behind the scenes?
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jahnocli
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by jahnocli »

lwaxana wrote:The main question I would have before putting a lot of work into a collaboration would be whether or not the project manager is taking responsibility to complete the project even if they are the only one left working on it and will they be steadily working on it throughout. I think this might be the root cause of the differing expectations. I wonder if Jahnocli's suggestion for a blog may actually be that he wants to know that steady progress is happening behind the scenes?
These are exactly the topics I had in mind (though I was not able to express them in such objective language -- it's got me into trouble before!). I think these kind of concerns are outside the scope of the current topics list on this forum; perhaps the moderators could give their views on one or two extra topic headings for collaborative projects? (Would certainly head off some misconceptions about people being asked to work for free, if nothing else...)
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
steveryan2
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

lwaxana wrote:The main question I would have before putting a lot of work into a collaboration would be whether or not the project manager is taking responsibility to complete the project even if they are the only one left working on it and will they be steadily working on it throughout. I think this might be the root cause of the differing expectations. I wonder if Jahnocli's suggestion for a blog may actually be that he wants to know that steady progress is happening behind the scenes?
If this is the main question, then the term "steadily" would need to be defined. I have worked for free on a project that lasted more than 6 months and the others had constant delays and missed deliverables. Dates got pushed out again and again. I took this with a grain of salt because we were all working for free. Would I prefer to keep the momentum going and get it done? Sure, of course. But the to the others it was a lower priority. It eventually got done and can be seen here:
http://www.e-learningforkids.org/health ... /exercise/

If I had to define "steadily" myself, it would mean that there was a deadline set, and that the deliverable was met unless otherwise communicated. In the case of our project, no date was set, but I think I will make a commitment to change that starting now. I will communicate what I am working on and when I expect it will be done. If I don't think I can make that deliverable by the time communicated (for whatever reason), I will communicate that. I would expect the same from others.

Regarding a blog, I personally didn't think it was necessary because I have been posting everything I had as soon as it was completed. But let me know if you think that is something that is needed.
steveryan2
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

Per my commitment toward better communication and setting dates on deliverables, I will be working on vectorizing the main character this week. This is character #6 on Jahnocli's character design sheet (posted Sept 21st).

This character will require multiple views, but I will focus on the 3/4 view initially and get feedback on that before proceeding with other views or the rigging. It is Tuesday so I will aim to have this completed by Sunday.
steveryan2
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

Here is the first draft of the main character in vector format. This is a 3/4 view only but with functioning eyes, eye lids and mouth.

I am not sure that I am happy with the eyebrows; this version uses a single line with a brush applied to the stroke. I am thinking about changing it to an enclosed shape.

I welcome any feedback. On Monday I will begin any modifications that need to happen so that I can proceed with creating a side view. My goal is to have the side view complete by next Friday. If I have a lot of extra time I will also work on a front view.

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lwaxana
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by lwaxana »

That looks awesome! The curvature on his left cheekbone makes him look a little bit chubbier than the original concept, but it works both ways. I agree with your thought that enclosed eyebrows would look good.

You may have already consciously made these decisions, but in case you haven't, now would be a good time to decide if and how you want to use line weights, like beefing up the spatial edges (similar to the concept drawing), and if you want all the lines to be black or if you want them to be a darker version of the fill colors.

It's exciting to see this project gathering steam again! :D
steveryan2
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

lwaxana,

I included some variation in the line thickness for the beard, eyes, nose and wrinkles, but I don't remember if I did that for the actual head outline. It doesn't look like I did anyway, so I'll take a second stab at that.

Presently the outline colors are all black, but you are right it would look better as a darker version of the skin tone.

What are your thoughts on the colors? If you have any suggestions can you provide them as RGB values? Then I'll base the outline color on that. Or if you want to help with that as well it would be appreciated. I do want the whole thing to take place in the full light of day with a bright sun.

Thanks.
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jahnocli
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by jahnocli »

I'd like to see a bit of texture in the beard, and the eyebrows look a bit odd, but other than that, I think it looks pretty good.
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lwaxana
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by lwaxana »

When I envision really bright sun, the kind where you'd have shots looking up at the sun and then have to wiping your brow, etc, I envision stark shadows. That is why I made the characters so dark and backlit with bright light in the earlier examples. It's like a simplified version of stark shadows, similar to Joseph King of Dreams. If you wanted to go more realistic, the shadows would be more accurately based on the location of the sun, and you'd probably have lots of little shadows on the various features of the character. Either way, you get into the extra trouble of animating shadows (probably with masking), which might be worth it to add to the mood, but also might not be worth it due to the extra work. What are everyone's thoughts? Shadows or no? And if so, simplified or realistic?

Also, I need to figure out colors for characters in the context of the background colors. So are you envisioning the whole environment looking kind of like this http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/AFMOD ... 0.png.html colorwise?
steveryan2
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

jahnocli wrote:I'd like to see a bit of texture in the beard, and the eyebrows look a bit odd, but other than that, I think it looks pretty good.
Thanks.

I had originally tried to texture the beard using your drawing as a texture, but couldn't figure out how to get it work once I had the mouth; so I went with the super-simplified version. I will see if I can add some lines in an effort to get rid of the flat look.
steveryan2
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

lwaxana wrote:When I envision really bright sun, the kind where you'd have shots looking up at the sun and then have to wiping your brow, etc, I envision stark shadows. That is why I made the characters so dark and backlit with bright light in the earlier examples. It's like a simplified version of stark shadows, similar to Joseph King of Dreams. If you wanted to go more realistic, the shadows would be more accurately based on the location of the sun, and you'd probably have lots of little shadows on the various features of the character. Either way, you get into the extra trouble of animating shadows (probably with masking), which might be worth it to add to the mood, but also might not be worth it due to the extra work. What are everyone's thoughts? Shadows or no? And if so, simplified or realistic?

Also, I need to figure out colors for characters in the context of the background colors. So are you envisioning the whole environment looking kind of like this http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/AFMOD ... 0.png.html colorwise?
I am in favor of stylized shadows rather than realistic; for two reasons. The first reason is one you mentioned; a lot of extra work. The second reason is because I want to be sure that any shadows do not distract from the expressions of the characters. Yes, I want it to look blazingly hot, but not at the expense of being able to read the character's faces very quickly. I suppose this can be addressed on a shot-by-shot basis. In live action movies, the lighting is often redone completely from one shot to the next. Since this contains no dialog, all communication is non-verbal and I want to make sure that poses and facial expressions read clearly.
steveryan2
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Re: Anyone interested in teaming up?

Post by steveryan2 »

Based on feedback, I made the following changes to the character:
- Sharper cheek bone (at the bend)
- Texture in beard: I basically just added some lines under his lip. I also added a simple shadow to see if that would contribute to the sense of depth.
- Redid eyebrows to make them enclosed
- Varied the line thickness of the head

I did the side view as an action with a transition from 3/4 to side. It doesn't really work all that well because I can't figure out how to hide the right eye and eyebrow. I also used a lot of points that just made it harder to transition from one view to the next. For the next character I will use much fewer points.

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