more mouth shapes

Discuss Papagayo issues here

Moderators: Fahim, Distinct Sun, Víctor Paredes, erey, Belgarath, slowtiger

more mouth shapes

Postby 707dragon707 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:58 am

is there any way i can add mouth shapes such as th or smile.
User avatar
707dragon707
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 1:09 am

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby hayasidist » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:00 pm

to a mouth switch in Anime Studio? yes - just draw them as extra vector layers in the switch group and manually key them. I do this all the time.

to add things like these to papagayo's dictionary for phoneme breakdown (so that it can add them to its output) is much harder and probably not worth the effort.
User avatar
hayasidist
 
Posts: 1677
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:12 pm
Location: Kent, England

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby Ahroo » Wed May 25, 2016 6:16 pm

I was wondering if there have been any new ideas for adding phonemes to Papagayo since the last post on this subject (about a year and a half ago)? I would like to add new phonemes to Papagayo because I always use more than the basic 10 mouth shapes (including "th" and a few others). Yes, I can just go back into ASP to manually key them (as I've been doing), but that means I have to deal with the lip-sync process twice. Papagayo makes it so much easier to do, so I'd really like to be able to accomplish it all at one time.

If it is not possible in the current version (2.0b1), I hope that this is considered for future versions.

Thanks.
Ahroo
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:53 pm

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby synthsin75 » Wed May 25, 2016 7:31 pm

"TH" and "L" can pass for one another, as they look almost identical. Check it out in a mirror.
- Wes
Image
User avatar
synthsin75
 
Posts: 6033
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby hayasidist » Thu May 26, 2016 12:33 pm

This from the (user) dictionary from papagayo version 1. (The "beta" of v 2 seems to be stuck with no evident progress for some time now - last evident update July 2014).

A few things to notice:

- the dictionary breakdown is the Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) phoneme set - and papagayo maps these in a many-to-one relationship to the PB set.
- the mapping is based on standard north-American pronunciation - so some words (e.g. aluminium) will have significantly different phoneme breakdowns in other variants of spoken English
- there are no evident facilities to give papagayo optional different mappings although it is envisaged that this might be feasible in later releases.
- the papagayo source code is freely available (subject to licence terms) here: https://github.com/LostMoho/Papagayo -- you could always update it yourself!?

## You can add your own words to this user dictionary.
## For example, some proper nouns will not appear in the standard dictionary.
## Also strange, "cartoony" words will likely not appear.
##
## Each entry must be on its own line in the file. First is the word as normally written.
## Next, the word is followed by the phonemes used to pronounce it.
## These must be CMU-style phonemes, not Preston Blair phonemes. The CMU phonemes are more
## complex, but also more complete. Using CMU phonemes will also allow Papagayo to map them
## to other phoneme sets in the future.
##
## To start with, there is just one sample entry in this dictionary, WOWZA.

WOWZA W AW1 Z AH0
User avatar
hayasidist
 
Posts: 1677
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:12 pm
Location: Kent, England

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby muddcliff » Fri May 27, 2016 1:07 am

hayasidist wrote:This from the (user) dictionary from papagayo version 1. (The "beta" of v 2 seems to be stuck with no evident progress for some time now - last evident update July 2014).



Yeah there are a few forks on Github.
I am working on a few changes. I may start a new thread but I am not a C++ programmer and new to Github so I have no idea how to distribute my changes.

I only dev on Windows so I could only give to windows users.
muddcliff
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:51 pm

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby muddcliff » Fri May 27, 2016 5:26 am

707dragon707 wrote:is there any way i can add mouth shapes such as th or smile.

Yes it's actually a bug in the program but you can do it.

in your switch layer where you have the mouths create one named anything you like for me I did SM

In Papagayo in your text area enter something that it can't spell check I entered [smile]
In the waveform area it flagged it as red.
Right click on the word and it will show the Phonemes list and there is an area where you type in whatever you want.
In the typing area enter SM
click ok
when you play it will show a blank screen for that section.

Your indicator can be really anything yuo want it to be except one of the 10 that it already uses.

Does this make sense?
muddcliff
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:51 pm

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby muddcliff » Fri May 27, 2016 5:39 am

Here is some screen caps
link to full page
http://i63.tinypic.com/35bxmxv.png

Image
muddcliff
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:51 pm

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby Ahroo » Fri May 27, 2016 4:31 pm

synthsin75 wrote:"TH" and "L" can pass for one another, as they look almost identical. Check it out in a mirror.


Absolutely. However, perhaps because my animations are so rudimentary (due to my limited drawing/rigging/animation skills :oops: ), I tend to over-compensate by trying to get my lip-syncs as realistic as possible, so I use additional phenomes besides the basic 10.

hayasidist wrote:- the papagayo source code is freely available (subject to licence terms) here: https://github.com/LostMoho/Papagayo -- you could always update it yourself!?


I wish!!

@ muddcliff - That's a terrific idea and I plan to check it out as soon as I finish typing this. Thank you very much for the suggestion.

And thanks to synthsin75 and hayasidist for your comments, too! I appreciate you all taking the time to reply.

Laura
Ahroo
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:53 pm

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby synthsin75 » Fri May 27, 2016 5:21 pm

Ahroo wrote:
synthsin75 wrote:"TH" and "L" can pass for one another, as they look almost identical. Check it out in a mirror.


Absolutely. However, perhaps because my animations are so rudimentary (due to my limited drawing/rigging/animation skills :oops: ), I tend to over-compensate by trying to get my lip-syncs as realistic as possible, so I use additional phenomes besides the basic 10.


I can completely understand that for very slow talking or singing, but I've found that most average talking speeds tend to look jumbled and not read well with too many phonemes. I actually prefer to use only five or six basic phonemes. But that's why we animate...so we can make those decisions for ourselves.
- Wes
Image
User avatar
synthsin75
 
Posts: 6033
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby muddcliff » Sun May 29, 2016 12:35 am

hayasidist wrote:- the papagayo source code is freely available (subject to licence terms) here: https://github.com/LostMoho/Papagayo -- you could always update it yourself!?

Yeah well only an experienced C++ programmer should probably attempt it.Which I am not.
I have been looking at it and have made a few changes but I don't know how to deploy it. It would be windows only changes.
muddcliff
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:51 pm

Re: more mouth shapes

Postby muddcliff » Mon May 30, 2016 3:22 am

SUCCESS
I think I will be able to make a deployment on Windoww :P Yeahh
muddcliff
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:51 pm


Return to Papagayo

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest