Help with bones in snowman

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mwtoons
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Help with bones in snowman

Post by mwtoons »

:(
I have been animating in Flash for sometime and I am now working with moho. I see great potential in moho and I have read the tutorials and am now trying to build my first real moho project. My problem is in getting the bones to work. If you go here http://members.cox.net/mwtoons/snowmanexp.moho you can download my project file. I am trying to make his body move as well as the arms. However when I move the arms the either the eyes move or if I move the body the eyes do not move. It may be a combination of problems. I have a switch layer set up to blink the snowmans eyes and wink them. I have the switch layer, the snowman body ans the snowmans arms all under the sketeton layer. I have reread the tutorials a few times and I have been working on changing the area's of influence the bones have to no avail. You will also see a partical layer that I started to create for some snowflakes later on, but you can ignore them for the moment. My biggest chalenge is to get this snowman's sketeton working. Any help would be welcome. Thanks.[/i]
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bupaje
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Post by bupaje »

Hi. I had a quick go of it and one thing you need to do is move the 'snowman' layer out of the bone 'skelton' group. This allows you to animate the hands without deforming the snowman layer.

I put the body in another bone group with the eyes in that group but above the body.

I apologize I can't post the file right now as I'm on my way out. If anything isn't understood or clarified by someone else I will post it tomorrow when I get back.
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Lost Marble
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Post by Lost Marble »

Take a look at the following file - this is the snowman with bones added.

http://www.lostmarble.com/misc/snowmanexp_bones.moho

This is a case where manual bone binding might make the most sense. Because the snowman is made up of simple shapes with few points, and you don't want movement of the arms to affect the body, manual binding gives you complete control over this. For more information about manual bone binding, see Tutorial 3.1 (about half way through).

To bind the eyes, you need to bind the switch layer to the bone in the head. Do this using the Bind Layer tool. Layer binding also gets a little coverage in tutorial 3.1.
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7feet
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Post by 7feet »

Or another somewhat different method:

snowmanexpB.moho

In this case, the snowman is left on the same layer, and a little tweaking of the bone strength gets it to move pretty well. The snowmans top button jiggles a little bit with the head movement, but it's not too bad. My first thought was to go to the point binding, but I wanted to see what could be done without it. As in LM's example, bind the eye switch layer to the head bone. Also, because I wasn't using the Bind Points tool, I wanted to make sure that the arm bones didn't affect the points on the body. And thats a call for the Offset Bone tool.

As you can see, I moved the arms (in the Zero frame) away from the body by translating their layers, and then put bones in them (parented to the middle circle's bone in the snowman's body). Then use the Bone Offset tool to move the arm bones back to where they belong, and the arm layers follow along. What this does, apparently, is make Moho act as if the bone is still really far away from the other points in the character, so the bone doesn't have enough "strength" to affect them. Even though, looking at your screen, they appear to be working in the same spot. One of the cooler additions in the new version, I think. It can be a little wierd building your character looking like it's exploded all over the place when you are on the Zero frame (you can get a look at it proper on the Zero frame by selecting the Manipulate Bone tool), but you get used to it. It's the thing that makes all the automatic binding work, where I almost never used it in the previous version. Now I use point binding for only those things that really need it.

That said, I agree with LM that this is a place where point binding, as the file stands, is a very good, accurate option. Another, if you don't want any deformation of the shapes, would be to place each of the snowman's body sections onto a separate layer, and then bind each of those layers to a bone. You could select all the points for a particular section, and then just cut and paste them into a new vector layer. The shape information (colors, line widths, etc.) goes along with it.

Y'see, there are a lot of ways to get there from here in Moho. Don't let the options confuse you, it's good to know 'em all so you have the choice when you come up against a problem.

--Brian
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bupaje
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Post by bupaje »

@Lostmarble Wow, nice. Just got back and saw this. When I first read that tutorial I didn't get the relevance of the manual bone binding. This is very cool as I was breaking everything up into seperate pieces, locking some bones, creating too many groups, moving origins and setting small angles to try to avoid this deforming in my own work.

@7feet -yet another way to do it -how cool.

@mwtoons - nice work by the way. Your switch example actually was very useful to me as the simple open, close, wink gave me a quick look at how useful this is and the answer to your question has been very helpful as well.

I'll post a quick link to the mov so you can see how it looks since I already uploaded it before seeing this new post; the head still deformed if I tilted it much since I didn't understand the usefulness of manual binding before I saw this response. Nice job.



http://stormvisions.com/moho/snowmanexp.mov
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mwtoons
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Post by mwtoons »

:D
WOW WOW WOW!!! First let em say thank you to everyone who replied!! I logged on tonight expecting to see that no one had responded yet. I am very gratefull you all took the time to help. I am still digesting everything you all said but I think I get it. I will have to sit down now and try to make this work myself.

bupage:
Thanks for the comments. I like the switch layers. I am used to working with flash where I had to make movie clips for things like eye blinks, but moho makes it easy with switch layers. I like the animation you did, it looks great!

LM thanks a million. Binding layers to bones was a concept I missed in the tutorials but I getit now. That was the thing I could figure out last night.

7feet
Thank you too. You gave me a lot of good information, it really helps a lot. I am glad I posted my question. The answers here will help so much.

Thanks again. I am sure I will be back. Take care.

Mike
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mwtoons
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Post by mwtoons »

:D
Thanks again! I tried all of your suggestions and was able to get it to work with 7feet and lostmarbles methods.


I learned a lot from this. Thanks again!
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