Stacked bone layers - how and where to bind?

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slowtiger
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Stacked bone layers - how and where to bind?

Post by slowtiger » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:54 am

Up until now I built all my skeletons in a single bone layer. Now I want to get a bit more organised and do single bone layers for every arm, every leg, the head, and the body. Inside one bone layer I know what to do. But I seem to be lost when I want to connect one bone layer to another.

I want to connect the root bone of my leg layer to the hip bone inside the body layer. But how do I do that? The binding tools don't work, although my setup seems to be OK:

body bone layer
- body vector layer
- leg bone layer
- - leg vector layer
- leg bone layer
- - leg vector layer

I know this has been covered before, but seyrch didn't turn up anything useful.
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:33 am

Can we get more info on when you say... "The binding tools don't work"?

They work for me when doing this. I do it all the time. Maybe if you could show us an actual file when it doesn't work?

Here are my steps....

Put the leg bone layer inside the body bone layer. With the leg bone layer selected (not the leg vector layer inside the leg bone layer) you select the Bind Layer tool. Now click on the bone (hip bone) you want to bind to.

That is all I do.

That leg bone layer should now pivot around the end point of the hip bone, just as if the leg bone was actually connected.


-vern
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7feet
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Post by 7feet » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:17 am

Perhaps similar to what selgin has said he uses on his 3D figures. I've used the same I've done for VFX work that I've done in Moho as the root.

Binding sub-bone layers to upper layers is cake. Most of the problems I've had with the "bind layer" tool have because I did something wrong.
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Post by slowtiger » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:34 pm

Vern: That did the trick, thank you. Obviously I was thinking the wrong way round.

1. Select the child bone layer.
2. Select the root bone in this layer.
3. Select the Bind Layer tool and
4. click on the bone in the parent bone layer you want to biond your sublayer to.
5. Enter Spacebar.

(I will print this out and paste it somewhere I can ignore it ...)
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:27 pm

slowtiger wrote:Vern: That did the trick, thank you.
Yeehaa!

You know... whenever someone says that to me, I can't help but get a little choked up. I hear dramatic, schmaltzy music in the background as a tear trickles down my face... <sniff>.

Makes my day seem just a little brighter.

;)

-vern
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Post by slowtiger » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:44 am

That's one thing I sometimes really miss: sit in the same room with other animators and do stuff, and any moment someone asks and others answer (but this forum is nearly a substitute for that). (It's not limited to animators, I had the same great experience with programmers and with graphic designers.) This is something you don't have when you work at home just by yourself, or if you work with other people in the same room, but are the only one of your kind. To maintain an inspiring atmosphere is one of the most important tasks in any studio or office.
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:09 am

Ah yes, working at home... alone...

The electric guy has caught on to my situation and won't stop in for coffee or a beer anymore. Tried it with the water guy and they installed an outside reader for the meter... <sigh>

I had a blast during the recent elections. Lot's of people stopping by to chat. I have had seventh day adventists make up excuses to leave...

"Oh come on guys? Don't leave now! I have a bunch more cool animations to show you! You haven't even seen the flip book cartoons in the margins of my bible yet!"

If the moonies show up I am in big trouble.

;)

-vern
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Post by Gnaws » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:22 pm

slowtiger wrote:Vern: That did the trick, thank you.
HeyVern - would it be OK to ask to post a simple example of what you guys are discussing? Sounds really powerful but I'm having trouble envisioning when/where/why to use it.


Regards,
- g
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:59 pm

Here you go:
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/bind_bone_layer.moho

Very simple. I only did the legs as separate layers.

As to the 3 W's (when where why)... personally it would depend on the project.

I have some projects where I have separate arms and legs in their own bone layer so they can be underneath some object or other layer. Like a guy riding a horse... or a cow. Or a character holding something.

Usually I use my master bone script so I can control those bones from one bone layer, but it's the same concept.

This file doesn't show the "when where why" very effectively.

-vern
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Gnaws
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Post by Gnaws » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:02 pm

Thanks alot Vern!!

So what you're describing is illustrated in this example by your spine rig? By having bones "2" (the head bone) and "28"(neck) "bind layered" to "ctrl3" (head control bone), etc.?
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:12 pm

No!

Sorry about that... just the leg bones.

the spine rig was left over from another example. I used it for this one.

The spine rig shows how to make a chain of bones easier to control using constraints and a smaller chain of bones.

Inside the body bone layer there are the two leg bone layers. That is the primary focus here.

-vern
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Post by Gnaws » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:53 pm

Oh! Right on. When I first looked at the example that's what I thought you were describing.

All understood.

Cool setup with the spine!!!

Thanks a ton!!

-g
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Post by Gnaws » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:37 am

The spine rig shows how to make a chain of bones easier to control using constraints and a smaller chain of bones.
I was just checking this out again....BRILLIANT!!

Speaking of "Bone Constraints", do you have any examples of "Position Control Bones" you could share, too? That feature still escapes me.

Thanks again, Santa...I MEAN...Vern.

- g
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:51 am

There is a tip I did somewhere here with a file link... somewhere in the forum, that has one of my eyeball bone rigs using the position constraint extensively.

Basically I have a rig set up that controls the location of eyeballs for both eyes using only one bone's position.

In that example the head is at a 3/4 angle so the eyes are a different size. The position constraint isn't 1 to 1... I use a lesser value on one eye bone to compensate for its smaller size. I can move one bone and control both eyeballs without getting any weird crosseyed look on the character. The eyeballs keep their focus.

There is a weird problem with the position constraint... bone parenting and initial rotation... sometimes you get "opposite" results if the bones are parented differently... occasionally I have to experiment with negative values on the constraint to compensate. Sometimes the constrained bone will move up when it should move down... it is weird. Because of this I don't use it nearly as much as the other constraints.

I will try to track that thread down.

-vern
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Ramón López
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Post by Ramón López » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:12 am

heyvern wrote:There is a weird problem with the position constraint... Sometimes the constrained bone will move up when it should move down...
I've always encountred it a little weird too, even I remember someday LM told us something about that :arrow:HERE! Ohohuch... How I love revive old LM posts! It's just like if he still be between us... :roll:
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