Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Wondering how to accomplish a certain animation task? Ask here.

Moderators: Fahim, Distinct Sun, Víctor Paredes, erey, Belgarath, slowtiger

Post Reply
Twisto
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:27 pm
Location: Tehran,Iran

Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by Twisto » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:02 am

Hi
when I draw with freehand tool and after some minutes of drawing every buttons in moho doesn't work and not responding and I should wait for some seconds and after that draw again. its very annoy me.
I Setup a new Windows but before setup new Windows Moho worked very well.
Moho now is work slowly at all right now.
please help
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4536
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:23 pm

Just a guess but have you tried disabling GPU Acceleration? Or if it's already off, enabling it?

That really is just a guess since I haven't run into this issue. If I think of anything else, I'll follow up.

What kind of tablet are you using? Since it's a new Windows, maybe you need to change a tablet driver setting or two? Just another guess.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
alanthebox
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:31 pm
Location: california
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by alanthebox » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:36 pm

Twisto wrote:Hi
when I draw with freehand tool and after some minutes of drawing every buttons in moho doesn't work and not responding and I should wait for some seconds and after that draw again. its very annoy me.
I Setup a new Windows but before setup new Windows Moho worked very well.
Moho now is work slowly at all right now.
please help
I was actually experiencing this same issue last night. I would start to draw and Moho would sort hang for a second or two. It was very annoying and led to some odd strokes as it seemed Moho was losing the connection (example: you're drawing a square, Moho hangs and misses part of the stroke, and when Moho picks back up you have a triangle).

After restarting my computer, hiding all unneeded layers, and disabling brush effects, this was less noticeable. Playing around with GPU settings didn't seem to have any effect.
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4536
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:01 pm

Hmm...it's actually been a while since I last used Freehand because it's never been a great tool to draw with. Maybe it's actually gotten worse in recent releases?

The last time I used Freehand and Blob Brush was for a short FBF segment to transition between two rigged character animations. From what I recall, the tools worked 'well-enough' for that scene--I got the usual errors but did not experience lag. But, then again, I only drew about 12 - 24 frames with the tools. That had to be a year-and-a-half to two years ago and using a much earlier version of Moho 12 I think.

I'll take a look tonight with Moho 12.5 and see if I run into any problems. Will let you know if I'm seeing the same.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
alanthebox
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:31 pm
Location: california
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by alanthebox » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:20 pm

It's worth noting that the project I was working on contained a lot of frame by frame animation. I chalked the lag up to having so many layers/frames. And I was using a textured brush.
User avatar
drumlug13
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Beautiful St. Louis, MO

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by drumlug13 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:30 pm

It can also be from having too many points on one layer. I run into this a lot since I started using the freehand tool. I used to draw everything with a mouse, so it was more precise (or boring and stiff) and the number of points was minimal. But drawing with the freehand tool multiplies the points tenfold. It doesn't take long before I start running into several seconds of lag between picking up my pen and being able to start the next line.

I'm assuming the only solution is to buy a faster computer. Which isn't going to happen any time soon.

I don't know if this would apply exactly to your situation but, something I started doing to work around the problem... I keep 2 layers for drawing. When the lag starts, I just copy all of those lines and paste them into a layer below it. Then go back to the other layer and delete everything and start fresh. Draw until it slows down again. Copy, paste, delete... over and over until it's finished.

All of the points in the picture below are on one layer. If I try drawing another line on that same layer it seriously takes about 20 seconds to register. But if I have GPU checked, and I start drawing again on the fresh layer, I can draw just as fast as before.

Image
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4536
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:55 pm

alanthebox wrote:And I was using a textured brush.
Oh, yeah...try disabling Brushes, Anti-aliasing and some other Display Quality options and see if that helps. Once you've established 'the look', it might not be necessary to see all the effects in the Workspace.

I'm sure what drumlug13 writes has a lot to do with lagging performance too.

There are ways optimize the point count and line quality both while your drawing and afterward but, for me anyway, it's too disruptive to have to pause to tweak nearly every stroke, so I decided to just avoid these tools. Which is a shame because you really need some kind of Freehand tool for FBF work.

I really hope the devs can improve the Freehand vector tools in the near future.

For rigged artwork, I still prefer point-and-drag with the Add Points tool to draw character art. IMO, you can't get the optimal point placement required for good deformation through freehand drawing.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4536
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:56 pm

@drumlug13, that's very nice background art, by the way. :)
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
drumlug13
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Beautiful St. Louis, MO

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by drumlug13 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:18 pm

Thanks, I wish I could take credit for it. I'm trying to learn how DePatie Freleng made their backgrounds by redrawing and repainting a bunch of them. I figure it's like, if you want to learn to play drums like John Bonham you have to play along with all those Led Zeppelin songs. So far I've learned quite a lot that way.

quote="Greenlaw"]For rigged artwork, I still prefer point-and-drag with the Add Points tool to draw character art. IMO, you can't get the optimal point placement required for good deformation through freehand drawing.[/quote]

Absolutely. I imagine rigging a freehand drawn character would be a nightmare :twisted:
User avatar
slowtiger
Posts: 5430
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by slowtiger » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:39 pm

Uhm, that background is great, but IMHO Moho is absolutely the wrong program for that kind of work. This calls for a decent pixel-based software like TVPaint, Photoshop, or the like.
AS 9.5 MacPro Quadcore 3GHz 16GB RAM OS 10.6.8 Quicktime 7.6.6
AS 11 MacPro 12core 3GHz 32GB RAM OS 10.11 Quicktime 10.7.3
User avatar
drumlug13
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Beautiful St. Louis, MO

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by drumlug13 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:52 pm

slowtiger wrote:Uhm, that background is great, but IMHO Moho is absolutely the wrong program for that kind of work. This calls for a decent pixel-based software like TVPaint, Photoshop, or the like.
I just drew the lines in Moho so I could change the style and line width later if I need to. Then I export a PNG of the lines and paint it in Clip Studio. I wish I could afford TV Paint. I've been laying down hints to the kids for a few years now but still... no TV Paint at Christmas time.
User avatar
slowtiger
Posts: 5430
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by slowtiger » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:45 am

And why don't you draw the lines in Clipstudio?
AS 9.5 MacPro Quadcore 3GHz 16GB RAM OS 10.6.8 Quicktime 7.6.6
AS 11 MacPro 12core 3GHz 32GB RAM OS 10.11 Quicktime 10.7.3
User avatar
drumlug13
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Beautiful St. Louis, MO

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by drumlug13 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:04 pm

slowtiger wrote:And why don't you draw the lines in Clipstudio?
I tried it a couple of times but when I imported a Moho character on top of the CSP drawing and I couldn't get them to look right together. (Honestly it's probably just an OCD thing in my head) Clip Studio does have a way to adjust line weight afterwards but it's really tedious. What I do now is just assign a style to the lines in Moho so it only takes a second to change the line work if I decide to go for a different look.
User avatar
chucky
Posts: 3935
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:24 am
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Contact:

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by chucky » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:14 pm

Hey Adam,
In CSP use the tool that looks like a box, you will be able to adjust all lines at the same time.
You'll be able to change ALL the brush's properties. :D
If they are vector strokes, I'd keep the lines separate to the fills of course.
Sequential offender.
my latest animations
User avatar
drumlug13
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Beautiful St. Louis, MO

Re: Not responding when I draw with "Freehand"

Post by drumlug13 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:26 pm

Get........ Out! :shock:

Nobody. And I mean Noooooo Body can over-complicate the simple solutions like I can.

I've been spending more time in CSP the last couple of weeks but I still don't think I've scratched the surface of what it can do.
Post Reply