Separate layers for keyframes in timeline?

[litote]

Is there a way to add keyframes to a separate "layer" in the timeline, rather than them all being mixed together on one line?

If I keyframe, say, an eye blink and a lip movement on the same frame, I find these movements get merged in to one keyframe, making it difficult to go back and find and make adjustments to just one of these movements, like the eye blinking.

Is there a way to make the keyframes for the eye blink appear on a separate layer below the the lip movement in the timeline so it is easier to locate?

[hayasidist]

it sounds as though you have "consolidate timeline channels" set . Go to edit / preferences / timeline and uncheck the "consolidate .." box.

[Greenlaw]

Yeah, sound like it to me too.

If the option is already disabled in Preference, you might have it enabled for the layer. With the layer selected, look under the Animation menu and un-select Consolidate Layer Channels.

And if that's not it, there's one other place to check: in the timeline, right click over the single channel icon and a menu should appear with Un-Consolidate Layer Channels listed. Select that.

Note that the above two can override each other so make sure BOTH are disabled.

Normally, I have this feature disabled but when I wish to re-time the keys in a complex animation, I may enable the option temporarily. When I'm done retiming, I'll disable it again.

Hope this helps.

[Greenlaw]

On a related topic, you might consider breaking out the eyes and mouth to separate layers in the Layer window. You don't normally keyframe these items in the same layer.

Typically, I have the layers for each eye in separate groups, and the mouth layers in its own group. Then all these elements will be bound to a face bone that I can move the whole face independently of the head art (in another layer or group and probably also serving as a mask.) This way, everything can be controlled individually with their own timeline--good for head turns and nods. Ideally, most of the face animations will be linked to Smart Bone Actions so you can keep all the keyframes in one Layer. This is different from what we talked about earlier: the keys for all the bones appear in the top and the red rows beneath that are for individual selections of bones. Most of the actual animation should be done in the red area.

Hope this helps.

[litote]

Thanks for you replies.

I did not explain very well. The consolidate layers was not the issue I don't think.

I have a single vector layer that I am using to animate an imported image of a face by triangulating it (Draw-Triangulate 2D). Then I double-click on the image layer to open Layer Settings and select this triangulated vector layer for its Image tab Smart Warp Layer menu so it will warp with the animation of the vector layer's triangles.

However, when I use the Transform Points tool on the vector layer to animate an eye blink and a lip movement, this still combines these translations of the points of the triangles in to a column of keyframes on the same frame. What I want to do is to be able to separate them in the timeline so that one set of keyframes appears for each set of points (eye and lip), so I can more easily delete and adjust the keyframes for each.

Is this possible?

[Greenlaw]

Sorry, this still sounds a bit confusing to me, but I'll give it another shot:

Any animations in the layer that's being deformed by the mesh will be in its own layer and the animation of the mesh will be in its own layer. Are you wanting to see the keys for both layers at the same time but in different timelines?

if so, you will need to enable Timeline Visibility for each of those layers. That's the check box under the 'stopwatch' icon in the Layers window. This will 'fix' the timeline for that layer so it stay visible even when you have another layer selected...this way, you can look at multiple timelines at the same time and see how the keys are realated and to make sure they're in sync with each other.

Note that you will not see the layer with Timeline Visibility enabled in the Timeline if you haven't keyframed anything in it yet. It only appears after you have created at least one keyframe.

I hope this is what you're looking for. If not, you'll probably need to post a visual example of what you wish to do.

[hayasidist]

I think the question is:
I have a mesh on one layer.
In this mesh I have points for eyes and points for mouth. I animate both.
I want to see keys for either mouth or eyes; but not both.

If so - this is one approach you might like to try:
make a point group for those points controlling the eyes and another for those controlling the mouth
if you want to see just the keys for the eyes: with point selection active: select group "mouth"; draw / hide selected.
Now to show just the mouth keys: draw / show all; select group "eyes"; draw / hide selected

[litote]

Hello,

Thanks again for your replies.

I have made a screenshot to make it more clear how my project is set up. As you can see, there is one vector layer that is triangulated to morph the face image. However, if I move points to change the shape, all the translations of any points I move will be recorded together on a frame with the same keyframe, making it difficult to target a group of points, like those around the mouth for modification. I have to remember which ones I moved.

As you can see in the screenshot, there is a single row of keyframes only, so each keyframe encompasses all points that are moved, but none selectively.

If the point group method allows me to separate these groups of points, like the mouth and the eyes that may be what I need. But I have no idea how to create a point group. Can you instruct?

Screenshot:
https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/3/ ... 4-full.png

Thanks!

[Greenlaw]

Ok, I see now. Yeah, interesting problem.

That's a lot of points to isolate and the overlapping makes it even more difficult to animate.

One approach would be to make point groups, as Hayasidist described, then you can use the Magnet tool with selected points to reshape the selections but leave the other points in place. Having the groups will show you the keys for the selected points in the red channels as described earlier.

Another, more advanced approach might be to use a switch layer for the mouth animation. Then you would reshape duplicate mouths for all your lipsync poses. In the Switch Group, you should enable Interpolate--this should smoothly morph the mouth shapes if that's what you wish. You'll want to animate the mouths using Switch Selection or one of the 'standard' methods because smooth interpolation for Switch Layers won't work using an SBD.

If you need need to the shapes to have expressions, you can add the expressions with an SBD. I sometimes create a two-position SDB called 'emo' that reshapes the mouths to happier or sadder poses. This saves me from creating a lot of additional drawings for the expressions. Or, you can just reshape the mouths using the Magnet tool...the reshapes are keyframed so they're non-destructive, and you can always 'Reset' the pose (to the neutral pose from frame 0) by using the Reset Points command.

The one catch with this method is that you need to be sure you're done creating your mesh before you start. If you add or delete any points on a mesh, you will break the links for the morphs. I'm not aware of any method for fixing the link between drawings once they're broken.

Yet another approach--and this one is probably more direct--is to rig the points around the mouth to bones. There are different ways to arrange the bones for this, and you might even opt to use Pin bones for this instead of the regular bones. You could rig the bones to animate with SBD and/or use regular actions to set the mouth shapes. Or, you can just animate them manually.

Personally, I'd use far fewer points around the mouth. I understand you're using that many to try to 'smooth' the edges but you can probably still use a lot less and still get an acceptable look. In animation, I don't think anybody will notice if there is some faceting occurring.

Regardless of the method you choose, you can still animate the eyelids using the SBDs so long as you don't keyframe these points in another smart action or manually animate the points on the timeline or in one of the Switch Layers (if you use that method).

BTW, I'm assuming the two 'Eye' controls are for moving the irises of each eye? I wouldn't use an SBD for that...it's better to simply bind the irises to separate bones and just move them directly. IMO, you'll have a lot more flexibility this way.

I hope some of these ideas help.

[Greenlaw]

Just a thought: I've never tried this but I wonder if you can use a mesh layer to animate another mesh layer. This probably won't work but my thought is maybe you can use a lower density mesh to animate a higher density mesh, and maybe the influence of the first mesh will smoothly deform the second?

Frankly, I doubt it works like that but maybe worth exploring?

[litote]

Hello,

Thanks for your advice.

I am new to Moho so I am unfamiliar with much of what you have mentioned.

I have used bones for some of the actions — that is a good suggestion.

What is SBD?

Is a switch layer the same as a blend morph?

Could you guide me on how to create a point group? I have not come across this.

Thanks

[Greenlaw]

I just did a quick test, and yes, it totally works like that. Since the influence of the each point is 'radial' and has a fall-off, the first mesh makes 'smooth' deforms over the second higher-density mesh. Then the second mesh does its thing on the image layer. So there's another approach to simplifying the control of the mesh in your image.

Edit: I don't know if the above will work to deform shapes inside a Switch Layer from outside the Group. I'm thinking it won't work but this is untested. But if it does work, that might be a good way to add expressions to the mouth shapes in the Switch Layer. Time for another test...

Tip: Make the mouth open in frame zero. That might make it easier to animate in later frames. You can always close the mouth at frame zero and make a regular action for that.

[Greenlaw]

SBD = Smart Bone Dial. The controls to the side of your character are SBDs. (Sorry, I'm probably the only person that calls them that but it's a lot easier to say and type.)

A Switch Layer is a special group that switches between drawings contained in the group. If you use duplicate vector layers, there is the option to have the drawings morph from one shape the other. It's critical that point count and order needs is preserved for this to work. (Recent feature allows you to morph between sub-groups, which is really cool. I used this feature on a recent episode of Boss Baby for the 'Nana' character when she's on the motorcycle.) If you don't know what a Switch Layer is, you definitely need to read up on it...it's one of the fundamental tools for animating in Moho.

To create a point group:

1. choose the Select Points tool and select some points.
2. enter a name for the group in the Group box and click Create.

Now you can select point groups you've created from the Select Group list.

Hope this helps.

[litote]

Hello Greenlaw,

Thanks, I had forgot about the grouping of points. This is certainly helpful.

I will research Switch Layers. Is this the same as the Window menu > Switch Selection function?

I am intrigued by your technique of controlling a complex “mesh layer” by a simpler one. Do you mean you create two vector layers and triangulate them (Draw > Triangulate 2D Mesh) and then somehow parent the complex mesh to the simpler one? How do you parent/link them together?

[Greenlaw]

I will research Switch Layers. Is this the same as the Window menu > Switch Selection function?

A Switch Layer is a special group that 'switches' between multiple layers or groups inside that group. There are many ways to control a Switch Layer. The Switch Selection window is just one way to control a Switch Layer.

I am intrigued by your technique of controlling a complex “mesh layer” by a simpler one. Do you mean you create two vector layers and triangulate them (Draw > Triangulate 2D Mesh) and then somehow parent the complex mesh to the simpler one? How do you parent/link them together?

Set your artwork to use the detailed mesh for mesh warping in its Layer Settings. Then set the detailed mesh to use the simpler mesh for mesh warping in its Layer Settings. No parenting necessary but all the layers (or their group) probably should be bound to the same bone.

As you might have guessed by now, there are often many ways to accomplish a task in Moho. The way to know which one works best is to just try them all and anything else you can think of. And have fun with it!