Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

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Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby SpaceBoy64 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:44 am

I started creating a head turn smart bone action. I created a bone, named it, made a new smart bone action, which I thought I was in when I started pushing points around to create the head turn action, then I clicked on the bone layer, and poof, all my work disappeared. I only thought I was in the smart bone action, when I was actually doing all these changes in the Mainline.

Is there a way to copy everything into the smart bone action? Copy keyframes doesn't work.

Thanks!
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby SpaceBoy64 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:21 pm

I feel like there has to be a solution to this, because I'm sure it happens all the time.

I could save a copy of my animation and delete all other keyframes. Would that help?
I'm not sure what I did wrong. I thought sure I was operating on the smart bone timeline. The smart bone was highlighted. I copied the name of the smart bone to name the action. Why did it throw me back into the mainline?

I made the head turn work, for this animation, but if I ever want to use it again, it would be nice to make it into an action.

Thanks,
-Don
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby Greenlaw » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:53 pm

You're right, it happens all the time, but you should be able to copy the keys in the Mainline, open the Action, and then paste the keys there.

Be sure you're on frame 0 before you paste though because when you open an Action, it defaults to frame 1. If you don't step back, you're Action will offset by one frame.

Also, remember to delete the keys on the Mainline after you've transferred the keys to the action.
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby SpaceBoy64 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:37 pm

[quote="Greenlaw"]You're right, it happens all the time, but you should be able to copy the keys in the Mainline, open the Action, and then paste the keys there./quote]

It should be that easy, right?
But it isn't.

I just did a test of that. I got very unexpected results. Here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mLeLZaM41MDtD11zonyP_nnAVjnMgLBm/view?usp=sharing

In the mainline, I created some keyframes. I copied them, moved down the timeline, and pasted them again. So, they're copied, right?
I switched to the smartbone action, paste command isn't available. I moved to frame 0 like you told me. Paste is now available. I paste, and an object from my last open project pastes into the action. It happens to be the hair object, one of the objects in my head turn. The keyframes from it also paste, so it does the turn motion. Why is that still in there? I've copied keyframes since then. What am I doing wrong? I mean, if I could do a paste like this of every object in the head turn, that would work, but I don't even know what I did.

Thanks,
-Don
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby Greenlaw » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:54 pm

It sounds like you're copying/pasting the artwork instead of keyframes.

Make sure you're selecting the keys in the Timeline before copying them, and then make sure you have mouse focus on the timeline (i.e, click in the Timeline,) before pasting.

Question: what version of Moho and which platform are you using? I recall an earlier version of Moho 12 had problems with copy/paste on the Mac platform. That problem should be fixed in the current version.

Hope this helps.

I'll look at your file after I get home tonight.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby Greenlaw » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:57 pm

You're probably not doing this but I just want to be certain we cover everything: when copy/pasting, be sure to use the Copy/Paste commands (Ctrl C/V) and not the Copy Layer/Paste Layer command. The latter set copies the currently selected layer or group, not keys.
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby SpaceBoy64 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:14 am

Greenlaw wrote:You're probably not doing this but I just want to be certain we cover everything: when copy/pasting, be sure to use the Copy/Paste commands (Ctrl C/V) and not the Copy Layer/Paste Layer command. The latter set copies the currently selected layer or group, not keys.


I am using version 9 for Windows (x86 version, not the 64 bit).

Yes, I tried Ctrl C/V , and the paste command under the edit menu. I'm not even sure where the Copy Layer/Paste Layer command is. It's not clear what is being copied with the menu commands. But, like I said, I know I copied keyframes, because I then pasted them into the timeline to verify it. However, the hair object was still in the clipboard somewhere as well, so when I tried to paste the keyframes into my action, and wasn't allowed to by the software, I moved to frame 0, and I was able to paste, but instead of the keyframes in the clipboard, it pasted the hair object.

Thanks for the help!
-Don
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby SpaceBoy64 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:22 am

Here is the finished animation:
https://youtu.be/C04lkduR998

Let me know what you think.

-Don
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby synthsin75 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:08 am

I don't think version 9 had copy/paste keyframes, aside from same layer/same timeline.
You'll need to right-click the mainline in the action window and insert a copy into an active action timeline.
- Wes
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby Greenlaw » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:25 pm

Thanks for chiming in Wes. Turns out I don't have version 9 installed anymore so wouldn't have been able to check. Also, I mistakenly thought he was talking about Smart Actions, which of course didn't exist till 9.5.

Sorry for the confusion, Don. :)
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby SpaceBoy64 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:13 pm

synthsin75 wrote:I don't think version 9 had copy/paste keyframes, aside from same layer/same timeline.
You'll need to right-click the mainline in the action window and insert a copy into an active action timeline.


Thanks! I didn't know about that.

I was beginning to think I'd have to edit the file in a text editor or something. Not even sure if that's possible.

Some day, I will upgrade, but I can't afford it right now.

Thanks,
-Don
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby chucky » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:15 pm

Bit worried about how that glass tips ,spaceboy.
For a better animation and a better silhouette , you could think about bringing the arm to the front and tip back towards her lips at a much shallower angle.
People also tilt their heads back when drinking, to look natural.
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby SpaceBoy64 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:32 pm

chucky wrote:Bit worried about how that glass tips ,spaceboy.
For a better animation and a better silhouette , you could think about bringing the arm to the front and tip back towards her lips at a much shallower angle.
People also tilt their heads back when drinking, to look natural.


Yeah, I know it's not exactly right. It looks awkward. I think because if it were in 3D space, you'd be looking at the bottom of that glass when she tilts it up.
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I probably should have looked for some reference, like this:
https://youtu.be/AWM9n7G2pmo?t=4m28s

That would require drawing different angles of the glass, which would have complicated it. The person I did this for was satisfied with it, so I didn't take it further. Maybe I'll work on that more in the future.

Thanks,
-Don
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby Greenlaw » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:59 pm

Congrats on getting the project done!

As my boss at Rhythm used to tell me, "Perfection would be nice but done is better." :)
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Re: Move a head turn from Mainline to Smartbone?

Postby SpaceBoy64 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:51 pm

Greenlaw wrote:Congrats on getting the project done!

As my boss at Rhythm used to tell me, "Perfection would be nice but done is better." :)


Yes indeed. If the client is happy, I'm happy.

But that's not to say I wouldn't want to improve my technique. It had been a couple of years since I last worked with Anime Studio, so it took me a while to get back into it. If I worked with it all the time, I think making that glass better might have been something I'd do. I also want to experiment more with 3D objects in this program. I used to work heavily in Lightwave 3D. Not sure if that would have been the solution here, but I'd like know to what's possible and what's not.

I was pretty happy with what I did with switch layers and interpolation to do the pouring though. That's a use for switch layers that I hadn't really used before.

Thanks!
-Don
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