Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

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masusaca
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by masusaca »

hayasidist wrote:
masusaca wrote:Okay, here is the file of the character I want to rig. If you or anyone else could please figure out how I can properly rig it. Also, the left arm is the only part of the body that is not cut (meaning that when rotated you can still see part of the other image on the back).
no file link for download!?
Oh wow, sorry. Here, http://sta.sh/0ruf2p09j0q
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synthsin75
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by synthsin75 »

There's no bone layer in that file, and it's missing the images.
masusaca
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by masusaca »

synthsin75 wrote:There's no bone layer in that file, and it's missing the images.
Sorry, I want some of you to placed the bones and tried to see if the problem are the images Here is the zip file with the Photoshop file and the Moho included. http://sta.sh/02c72xslnd1x
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synthsin75
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by synthsin75 »

masusaca wrote:
synthsin75 wrote:There's no bone layer in that file, and it's missing the images.
Sorry, I want some of you to placed the bones and tried to see if the problem are the images Here is the zip file with the Photoshop file and the Moho included. http://sta.sh/02c72xslnd1x
No, the problem is user error, and we can only help you if we can see what error you are making. We do this all the time, so we would not see whatever problem you are having.

But it still looks like you have not prepared the images for cutout...with rounded ends at the cuts.
masusaca
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by masusaca »

synthsin75 wrote:
masusaca wrote:
synthsin75 wrote:There's no bone layer in that file, and it's missing the images.
Sorry, I want some of you to placed the bones and tried to see if the problem are the images Here is the zip file with the Photoshop file and the Moho included. http://sta.sh/02c72xslnd1x
No, the problem is user error, and we can only help you if we can see what error you are making. We do this all the time, so we would not see whatever problem you are having.

But it still looks like you have not prepared the images for cutout...with rounded ends at the cuts.
I only did the round part for the left arm. Here is my rigging, if you could figure out what is happening.
http://sta.sh/02178sk11agh
chucky
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by chucky »

Still no image files.
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hayasidist
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by hayasidist »

masusaca wrote: I only did the round part for the left arm. Here is my rigging, if you could figure out what is happening.
http://sta.sh/02178sk11agh
well that wasn't an easy load -- Moho kept asking me for a disk in drive F:??

anyway ...

the basic problem is one of binding.

What I'd do with this is bind layers to the relevant bones where there is a one-one correspondence between bone and layer -- e.g. arm components, head .. and leave the torso flexibound - adjust bone strengths there to get the effects you want. That might mean moving the pivot points for the head and bicep layers ..

hth
masusaca
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by masusaca »

chucky wrote:Still no image files.
I don't know what to do with that. can you please use the photosho file and then try to rig the character from there. See if it is happening to you as well.
masusaca
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by masusaca »

hayasidist wrote:
masusaca wrote: I only did the round part for the left arm. Here is my rigging, if you could figure out what is happening.
http://sta.sh/02178sk11agh
well that wasn't an easy load -- Moho kept asking me for a disk in drive F:??

anyway ...

the basic problem is one of binding.

What I'd do with this is bind layers to the relevant bones where there is a one-one correspondence between bone and layer -- e.g. arm components, head .. and leave the torso flexibound - adjust bone strengths there to get the effects you want. That might mean moving the pivot points for the head and bicep layers ..

hth
I think I did that in a video I posted here. I have tried so many different methods but can't get it. I even created the vectors inside Moho and still I am having the same problems.
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hayasidist
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by hayasidist »

ok -- I think I see what you're getting at.

the torso, if you don't want it to "deform", only needs one bone - and layer bind the torso to that

bones don't need to be chained end to end - you can have the bicep / head bones far away from the parent torso bone as long as they're parented to the torso and "in the right place" for the pivot

if you want to rotate the torso you'll need a "root" bone -- which is the parent of the torso -- and this is not bound to anything - so make its bone strength zero.

if that's not it -- well, just say ....
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Greenlaw
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by Greenlaw »

Regarding circular joint caps and patch layers, I threw this together...maybe it will help.

Image

IIn the top image, I added circular joint guides to the project. These guides were described earlier. They can be used to find the optimal pivot points for the bones and artwork. In the lower image, I hid the fills in the display mode. This helped me adjust the shapes to conform to the circle guides. The guides are also used to align the tips of the bones.

Image

In this image, I added patch layers and placed them over the elbow and wrist joints. Patch layers are a quick and dirty way to hide overlapping lines at the joints. They only work with vectors. They can be very useful but they do have limitations. For example, you can't use a group as a patch target, so if you have a group, you may need to reverse your setup. Some undocumented features about Patch layers: you can squash and stretch a patch layer and you may even mask the patch to get irregular Patch layer shapes.

At the bottom is the render with the patch layers and circular joints.

For binding in this situation, I just used layer binding for the arm. This is because the arm is segmented and doesn't need to deform. TBH, with vectors, I typically make the arm a single layer with split artwork and use Smart Bones to correct the joint deforms. This tends to look nicer than using segmented layers, and if you dupe the layer and mask or otherwise hide the upper and lower portions, you can still wrap the limb behind and in front of the body without breaking the continues art look. That said, sometimes I will fall back on patch layers when I'm in a hurry and the character only requires a simple rig setup.

Oh, almost forgot: this is probably obvious, but the patch layers will need binding too. Use Layer Binding to bind Patch Layers.

If I were using bitmap images for the arm, I would probably paint the arm as a single image and use Smooth Joint instead. Smooth Joint works surprisingly well, even with some detailed textures, and since the art is not segmented, you don't need to worry about 'tearing.' Note that the preview quality may not look good with Smooth Joint but it should look fine when you render to final quality. I used this method for many of the King Julien and Puss In Boots setups.

For the torso binding, I just used Use Selected Bones For Flexi-binding. This keeps the arm bones from pulling at the torso as was happening in your scene. What this command does is it excludes all other bones from affecting the selected layers.

Here's the file if you wish to look at it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wvz5ik635j5lo ... s.zip?dl=0

Hope this helps.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by Greenlaw »

A few more comments:

There are actually many ways to rig arms and torsos, and these are only a few basic suggestions. The method you settle on depends on your character design, the animation style, and whether you're using vector, bitmap or hybrid artwork for your character. I think some of the suggestions made here by myself and others will work well for your character but you'll want to experiment with other methods once you start adding Switch Layers and Smart Bone actions.

Finally, I suggest you group your layers in clearly named categories, i.e., ArmL, ArmR, Torso, Head, Face, etc. This can make it much easier to rig the character and keep track of how the variuos layers are bound.

Good luck!
masusaca
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by masusaca »

Greenlaw wrote:A few more comments:

There are actually many ways to rig arms and torsos, and these are only a few basic suggestions. The method you settle on depends on your character design, the animation style, and whether you're using vector, bitmap or hybrid artwork for your character. I think some of the suggestions made here by myself and others will work well for your character but you'll want to experiment with other methods once you start adding Switch Layers and Smart Bone actions.

Finally, I suggest you group your layers in clearly named categories, i.e., ArmL, ArmR, Torso, Head, Face, etc. This can make it much easier to rig the character and keep track of how the variuos layers are bound.

Good luck!
Hey, thank you for the information and quick tutorial you provided. I'll take a look at it and tried to do what you did.
masusaca
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by masusaca »

Greenlaw wrote:A few more comments:

There are actually many ways to rig arms and torsos, and these are only a few basic suggestions. The method you settle on depends on your character design, the animation style, and whether you're using vector, bitmap or hybrid artwork for your character. I think some of the suggestions made here by myself and others will work well for your character but you'll want to experiment with other methods once you start adding Switch Layers and Smart Bone actions.

Finally, I suggest you group your layers in clearly named categories, i.e., ArmL, ArmR, Torso, Head, Face, etc. This can make it much easier to rig the character and keep track of how the variuos layers are bound.

Good luck!
Okay, I want to make sure. What method did you use to bind the bones to each part of the body? For example, did you use "Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding" or just "Bind Layer"?
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Greenlaw
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Re: Image Layers Stretch When Moving Bones

Post by Greenlaw »

masusaca wrote:Okay, I want to make sure. What method did you use to bind the bones to each part of the body? For example, did you use "Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding" or just "Bind Layer"?
Greenlaw wrote:For binding in this situation, I just used layer binding for the arm. This is because the arm is segmented and doesn't need to deform. TBH, with vectors, I typically make the arm a single layer with split artwork and use Smart Bones to correct the joint deforms. This tends to look nicer than using segmented layers, and if you dupe the layer and mask or otherwise hide the upper and lower portions, you can still wrap the limb behind and in front of the body without breaking the continues art look. That said, sometimes I will fall back on patch layers when I'm in a hurry and the character only requires a simple rig setup.

Oh, almost forgot: this is probably obvious, but the patch layers will need binding too. Use Layer Binding to bind Patch Layers.
For the torso binding, I just used Use Selected Bones For Flexi-binding. This keeps the arm bones from pulling at the torso as was happening in your scene. What this command does is it excludes all other bones from affecting the selected layers.
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