weird thing with target bones

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Reindeer
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weird thing with target bones

Post by Reindeer »

Today I'm bumping into some weird problems. I just solved a problem with an action and rigging problem (thanks to Synthin's help) but here's another one...
I have a character who's feet are pinned to the ground with target bones. He works fine, I've been animating him.
Suddenly, the targets only work on frame 0. Meaning, he's pinned to the ground on frame 0 and is unpinned from frame 1 onward.
On frame 1 and beyond, moving the master bone behind his back will drag him around freely leaving the targets on the ground. And moving the targets will not move the leg to which they are attached, so they, too, are free.
It's as if the shin bones have lost their targets, but they didn't, I checked this and they still are correctly targeting.
Comparing the files in which he works with the files in which he has this problem, I can's see any apparent difference.
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Reindeer
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by Reindeer »

I just tried to erase the old targets and replaced them with new ones (in case there was something wrong with them, I know it sounds like magical thinking but...). But nothing, after frame 0 this guy seems to lose his targets no matter what. I'm completely puzzled :/
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synthsin75
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by synthsin75 »

If the bones targeting them are controlled by a smart bone, this may keep them from following the targets.
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Reindeer
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by Reindeer »

synthsin75 wrote:If the bones targeting them are controlled by a smart bone, this may keep them from following the targets.
The lower-leg bones that point to the targets (it's a typical rig to keep the feet still) have no actions attached to them and apparently aren't controlled by any other bone.
A very strange side-effect of this is that when I'm on frames 1 or beyond the bone manipulating tool (Z) will refuse (can't find a better word) to move the leg bones of the character but will pick up and drag the target bones instead. I'll try to picture this:
Imagine you hover the Z tool over the leg, then press on the lower or upper bone and drag. Instead of moving the leg, what happens is that the leg's target bone starts to get dragged around.
Even when the distance of the mouse pointer is clearly well far from the target (all bone strength down to minimum).
Trying to move left leg will drag left target and trying to move right leg will drag right target.
Going back to frame 0 will take things back to normality. Feet are pinned nicely to the ground and the target bones let you move the feet positions.
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synthsin75
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by synthsin75 »

Maybe the leg bones are constrained?
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Reindeer
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by Reindeer »

synthsin75 wrote:Maybe the leg bones are constrained?
No... The only settings for the shin bones are the two targets. Correct me if I'm wrong, whatever settings were present for the legs, even a constraint, wouldn't they already show up and work also on frame 0? What puzzles me is how the rig is fine on 0 and stops working correctly on frame 1 (on a clean timeline with still no keyframes).
I have this character in another, very slightly older, version, with the same rigging, and he works fine. I luckily can use him as a backup. But still... very weird.
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synthsin75
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by synthsin75 »

I might have to see the file to troubleshoot it. I can only guess otherwise.
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Reindeer
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by Reindeer »

synthsin75 wrote:I might have to see the file to troubleshoot it. I can only guess otherwise.
SOLVED! I erased all the bones except the master, legs and targets. And he worked again. So then, by exclusion, I isolated a (*@#) dial smartbone that controls one of the character's mouth positions, which had - SOMEHOW - also keyframed the master bone. I guess that can happen accidentally with a random mouse click but, hey, to find it later... crazy!
You were right from the start, the mischief was another bone's fault!
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synthsin75
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by synthsin75 »

Ah, glad you got it sorted.
Yeah, smart bones need to be extra careful about what gets keyed.
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Reindeer
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by Reindeer »

synthsin75 wrote:Ah, glad you got it sorted.
Yeah, smart bones need to be extra careful about what gets keyed.
I learned a lot from this incident, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
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Reindeer
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by Reindeer »

synthsin75 wrote:Ah, glad you got it sorted.
Yeah, smart bones need to be extra careful about what gets keyed.
What was really puzzling was that the problem would only manifest itself after frame 0, in fact, I'm still not quite sure about that part... :)
Anyway, now it works fine... I don't want my doubts to magically break it again :D Thanks again.
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synthsin75
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Re: weird thing with target bones

Post by synthsin75 »

Reindeer wrote:What was really puzzling was that the problem would only manifest itself after frame 0, in fact, I'm still not quite sure about that part... :)
Anyway, now it works fine... I don't want my doubts to magically break it again :D Thanks again.
Smart bones only effect other smart bones while editing actions or off frame zero. That may explain what you were seeing.
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