Show all bones from the top layer
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Show all bones from the top layer
Hello, is there a way to show and manipulate all bones within a character from the top bone layer? For instance, if I put several bone layers within a bone layer, can I show and manipulate all the bones inside from the top bone layer? Hope that makes sense. Thank you!
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synthsin75
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Re: Show all bones from the top layer
Only if you relay them to top layer smart bones that control them. But it's much easier to have the top layer bones influence nested layers, without any lower level bones.
- Wes
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Re: Show all bones from the top layer
I think it should be an option to see the nested bones but, AFAIK, you can't.
The reason, I guess, is because you can only manipulate the bones in the Bone layer they belong to, not their 'parent' Bone layer. The child Bone layer probably becomes hidden to prevent confusion if you try to animate the nested bones from there and find you can't.
Personally, I avoid nesting bone layers inside of bone layers. To me, it's too much of a hassle to go into that layer to animate it. (Which I'm sure is why you're asking about this.) But like Wes said, it's easier to keep all your character's bones in one layer.
Curiously, you can see the parent Bone layer's bones when you click on the child Bone layer. I guess this is because the parent bone layer can affect the child Bone layer, just not the other way around.
The reason, I guess, is because you can only manipulate the bones in the Bone layer they belong to, not their 'parent' Bone layer. The child Bone layer probably becomes hidden to prevent confusion if you try to animate the nested bones from there and find you can't.
Personally, I avoid nesting bone layers inside of bone layers. To me, it's too much of a hassle to go into that layer to animate it. (Which I'm sure is why you're asking about this.) But like Wes said, it's easier to keep all your character's bones in one layer.
Curiously, you can see the parent Bone layer's bones when you click on the child Bone layer. I guess this is because the parent bone layer can affect the child Bone layer, just not the other way around.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Re: Show all bones from the top layer
Ah okay, thanks for your replies. Well that's a bummer I guess. Basically my idea was to create fully rotatable limbs, each on separate bone layers so I can easily make new characters by just reusing these bone layers. Each limb has a seperate control bone to fully turn it.
Im just binding these nested bone limbs to a normal bone structure on the top layer, so I can do a smart bone turn. This method works for me but like you said, it can be a bit of a hassle to animate the limbs seperately. Maybe there's a script somewhere that can let you manipulate nested bones.
Is there an easier way that you know of to move nested bones to the top layer? I did try to create smart bones to control the nested bones but that's gonna be a lot of work. For instance, I have a pretty nice hand rig that has lots of bones in it and it has its own control bone to do a 2.5d turn. How would you go about adding it to a different character rig since you can't reparent the top bone structure to a bone that's nested inside it? Thanks so much for your help!
Im just binding these nested bone limbs to a normal bone structure on the top layer, so I can do a smart bone turn. This method works for me but like you said, it can be a bit of a hassle to animate the limbs seperately. Maybe there's a script somewhere that can let you manipulate nested bones.
Is there an easier way that you know of to move nested bones to the top layer? I did try to create smart bones to control the nested bones but that's gonna be a lot of work. For instance, I have a pretty nice hand rig that has lots of bones in it and it has its own control bone to do a 2.5d turn. How would you go about adding it to a different character rig since you can't reparent the top bone structure to a bone that's nested inside it? Thanks so much for your help!
Re: Show all bones from the top layer
I'm not sure what to suggest because the better approach varies with character design and style of animation.
I create rotating limbs routinely, well, mainly for legs. Generally, I have a separate SBD for each leg and it's all in the same layer as the skeleton. Typically, I'm using switches and/or some transforming elements but it's all controlled from the main bone layer. Sometimes I just switch between different angles--this usually works fine for many characters and there are fewer surprises when deforming them. If extra-smooth motion is required, I'll use animated vectors and sliding textures in my SBD actions (which can look remarkably like '3D'.) If I go the latter approach, I may require fewer 'angle' groups inside the switch since I can usually transition from side to profile in either direction with one group. Although I did a character last year that used only one group for full rotation but I had to paint a 360-degree wraparound textures to pull this off. This allowed the character's body, head and limbs to independently turn 720 degrees or 360 in either direction. These were all controlled by individual 'limb turning' SDBs in the skeleton's layer too.
Victor recently came up with a neat 'rig swapping' system that allows you to change rigs. I adapted his trick to swap between standard arm rigs and noodle arm setups for a character. Maybe this could be adapted for your needs?
His trick is explained here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30445
Hope these ideas are helpful.
I create rotating limbs routinely, well, mainly for legs. Generally, I have a separate SBD for each leg and it's all in the same layer as the skeleton. Typically, I'm using switches and/or some transforming elements but it's all controlled from the main bone layer. Sometimes I just switch between different angles--this usually works fine for many characters and there are fewer surprises when deforming them. If extra-smooth motion is required, I'll use animated vectors and sliding textures in my SBD actions (which can look remarkably like '3D'.) If I go the latter approach, I may require fewer 'angle' groups inside the switch since I can usually transition from side to profile in either direction with one group. Although I did a character last year that used only one group for full rotation but I had to paint a 360-degree wraparound textures to pull this off. This allowed the character's body, head and limbs to independently turn 720 degrees or 360 in either direction. These were all controlled by individual 'limb turning' SDBs in the skeleton's layer too.
Victor recently came up with a neat 'rig swapping' system that allows you to change rigs. I adapted his trick to swap between standard arm rigs and noodle arm setups for a character. Maybe this could be adapted for your needs?
His trick is explained here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30445
Hope these ideas are helpful.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Re: Show all bones from the top layer
Hi Greenlaw,
Thanks for suggesting different approaches to this. Yeah I'm going for the extra smooth motion and you're right, sometimes it does look like it's 3D which is pretty cool. I'm actually feeling really good about this rig because it allows for a lot of versatility in how I can pose the character. It's just the hassle of going into each limb to make adjustments but I should be able to live with it. I just hope a script will pop up sometime that'll allow me to manipulate nested bones. Thanks for linking me to Victors rig swapping system, it looks really cool! I'm already having new ideas on how to implement that trick.
Thanks for suggesting different approaches to this. Yeah I'm going for the extra smooth motion and you're right, sometimes it does look like it's 3D which is pretty cool. I'm actually feeling really good about this rig because it allows for a lot of versatility in how I can pose the character. It's just the hassle of going into each limb to make adjustments but I should be able to live with it. I just hope a script will pop up sometime that'll allow me to manipulate nested bones. Thanks for linking me to Victors rig swapping system, it looks really cool! I'm already having new ideas on how to implement that trick.