...make smooth mouth movements?

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rpc9943
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...make smooth mouth movements?

Post by rpc9943 » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:36 am

Hey,

you know how do you make those smooth mouth movements akin to what we've seen on "foster's house of imaginary monsters"? I mean sure we get layer switching but is there any way we can program it so that whenever the layer is switched it triggers an actual "sub-animation" each time its activated? Like for O's it could move smoothly until its triggered again? or even like the rate of it changed, (if theres a "long O")?

Thanks
RonC
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Rasheed
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Post by Rasheed » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:07 am

I guess that has to be done with layer scripting. I can't help you here (yet), because I'm a newbee at Lua scripting. Ask in the Scripting subforum for a possible solution with layer scripting.
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mr. blaaa
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Post by mr. blaaa » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:49 pm

rpc:
Of course moho can produce those smooth movements, but there is a bit of work to do before it will work properly.
I am referring to the "interpolated switch technique" here.

1. Vector System:
_All compositions of your different mouth switches must have exactly
_the same amount of shapes and points. This is necessary for the process
_of interpolation afaik.

2. Construcion
_So make a basic shape that is able to "morph".
_Let's say we made a shape for the inside of our mouth called "insider".
_All shapes you create in the next steps go into this layer.
Image
_As you can see: the key is to keep it simple at this point...
_Next step: constructing the teeth.
_Stay in our "insider" layer. Construct the teeth as simple as necessary.
Image
_Now we go on with the skin.
_The best way is to create 2 shapes on different levels of height.
Image

_This is our basic mouth shape.


_Ok now we can go on. Of course you can create much more better mouth _samples, but lets stay on the path.

4. Switch Data
_Alright, create a switch layer and make a basic papagayo setup.
_So at the end you come up with all those phonemes...
_It is not necessary to do this setup, but it offers better animation _capabilities.
_The best thing to do this is cloning our "insider" a couple of times and _then renaming it.
_Make sure you have selected the "interpolate sub-layers" option in your _switch layer preferences.

5. Clean-up
_The next couple of minutes you just go to your different layers (the _phonemes) and edit it the way they should look like afterwards.

6. Animation
_Either let Papagayo set the switch keys or set them manually.
_You may have to put some minutes into a cleanup of the automatically _generated data, but that depends on your sound records...

7. Result
_The result should be a nice and smooth lipsync.

Here is an example:
The switch fades from "A" to "E".
Image
Image
rpc9943
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Post by rpc9943 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:57 am

well thank you for this blaa but this i think involves literal switching of shapes/pictures and then those mouth pictures morph and then switch back again...

RonC
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Rasheed
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Post by Rasheed » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:35 am

@rpc9943: What I thought you wanted was mouth shapes going from one pose to another with some subanimation to "cushion" the action, something similar as with a ball animation, where the bouncing ball flattens when it touches the floor.

So the mouth shape should only temporarily go to a more extreme and then return to the intended mouth shape. What that extreme is, should depend on the previous mouth shape and the number of frames this mouth shape is in view (the shorter, the more extreme).

My idea was that a layer script could be attached to the mouth shape layers, that senses the changes, scans for the mouth corners and do its business (in a predefined style). It would probably need to add some points temporarily and then restore the mouth shape when it is in its intended pose.

Wasn't that what you meant?
rpc9943
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Post by rpc9943 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:41 am

i guess it would be best explained if you watch an episode of foster's house of imaginary creatures. watch how the girl talks in it.

RonC
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Rasheed
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Post by Rasheed » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:19 am

Where can I watch that?
rpc9943
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Post by rpc9943 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:30 am

http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/fosters/

click on the tv room and watch how BLOO moves his mouth, its soooo smooth and not by vector morphing i dont think necessarily..

RONC
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Rasheed
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Post by Rasheed » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:08 am

rpc9943 wrote:click on the tv room and watch how BLOO moves his mouth
Sorry, can't watch it, only getting black TV screens. It could be that they have put a lock on it for non-US residents (based on the IP address). The show hasn't yet aired here in Europe.
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Post by jahnocli » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:47 pm

Well, I live in Europe (at least England WAS still in Europe last time I looked), and I saw it OK. Bloo's mouth is just...well animated, as you would expect from a professional show. I didn't see any lip syncing that couldn't have been done with symbols/switch layers...you just probably need more of them, and they need to be really accurately linked to trhe dialogue...
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rpc9943
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Post by rpc9943 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:25 pm

yeah so its probably more of an accurate set of dialogue switch layers?

to my eyes it looks like the "o's" are so smooth when they use them, etc

RonC
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Rasheed
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Post by Rasheed » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:20 pm

Although I haven't seen the mouth animation, I guess because the animation is made in Flash, the mouths are animated manually, which gives you much more artistic freedom than with automated tools. Only the result varies depending on your drawing and animation skills.

Unfortunately, Moho has a poor support for hand animation. You can use switch layers and interpolation, but there are other programs out there that are far better suitable for creating hand animation.

It is a pitty that Moho doesn't support Flash import (yet), because that would allow you to create some parts of your pencil animation in one animation program and use that for further processing in Moho.
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jahnocli
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Post by jahnocli » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:25 pm

It is a pitty that Moho doesn't support Flash import (yet)
Absolutely. This would be near the top of my list of Feature Requests...
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mr. blaaa
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Post by mr. blaaa » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:59 pm

Ok i viewed it again and i still can't define your problem...

DITO.

The more work you put in, the better result you will have...
And especially with moho i prefer to do the actual lipsync animations afterwards.
Basically you can do all sorts of things if you just set the keyframes...
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Post by cribble » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:03 pm

wouldn't animating at a higher frame rate help aswell? 30fps should give you enough frames to make everything smooth.
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