REALLY good artwork.

Venkman · Post by **Venkman** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:12 am

Hi.

This is going to seem like a completly Noob question, but I'm trying to learn...

I've been trying to make some characters and some enviroments and stuff and I think I'm getting better and better... But... i was wodnering....

I go to places like NewGrounds.com and I see some animations with BEAUTIFUL ARTWORK... and i mean BEAUTIFUL.... Specificallya re these two animations...

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/243164

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=7549

Now i was wondering...

I know it takes talent to achieve this kind of BEauty... however... Is it 100% talent? or are they using some other program that I know nothing about? Now, I know that you guys don't know the creators personally and don't know what they use.... My question is something along the lines of..... Is such amazing artwork achievable in MoHo? Are there other programs out there that I can make artwork like this in and then import it into Moho? (forgetting just for a moment as to wether or not I'll be good enough to make such artwork once I have the means)

Are there other things out there? or is such beautiful artwork achievable in MoHo? Thank you.

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:51 am

I think you're getting carried away. The animation in the second film is good, but the artwork isn't that great in either -- just seems pretty formulaic anime.

I love Moho, but it ain't the best vector drawing program. Take a look around this forum, try some other vector drawing programs out, then import the results into Moho.

J

Regul8R · Post by **Regul8R** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:05 pm

firstly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so its each to their own.
secondly, that first animation is entirely possibble with moho.
it has very little animation, mostly entire layer and camera movements.
the look of the piece is acheivable with a little drawing effort put in.

my two cents : if you want beautiful, check out forumite Sang's work,(around here somewhere), this is what i consider to be beautiful. A simple object/setting presented in a stylish new way. cant remeber the title, the curtain blowing in the wind, thought that was excellent!!

just my opinion

jay b

Venkman · Post by **Venkman** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:40 pm

I love Moho, but it ain't the best vector drawing program. Take a look around this forum, try some other vector drawing programs out, then import the results into Moho.

Exactly what I was looking for... What program do you suggest? if I do a google search for "vector drawing program" with that be what it's called?

if i draw soemthing in a seperate vector drawing program and then import it into MoHo, would I have any problems applying bones and such?

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:34 pm

There's something related to what you are interested in right here:

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... c&start=15

Try a Google search for "Expression" -- might still be up there. I've used Freehand, Illustrator and Xara X in the past, they are all good. But I've got a free version of Expression, and that is exceptional. I export drawings from there to Flash, and then re-export tham as .ai (Illustrator) files for import into Moho. Bit long-winded I know -- but instead of complaining about this program's shortcomings, sometimes it's better to just find a way...

J

Toontoonz · Post by **Toontoonz** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:28 pm

jahnocli wrote:I export drawings from there to Flash, and then re-export tham as .ai (Illustrator) files for import into Moho. Bit long-winded I know -- but instead of complaining about this program's shortcomings, sometimes it's better to just find a way...
J

How do you get the Expression>Flash .ai files to come into Moho without a "zillion" points?

See my reply to your post here regarding your technique.
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... 7&start=30

Could you please post an animation or two where you used Expression brushes (such as the watercolor and other paintbrush-type brushes) then animated the characters in Moho?
Are you just using simple, solid lines in Expression (which one can do in Moho)?

-------------
Here is the reply to you from the other forum:
I followed your instructions exactly as you outlined above so you can see how it looks and the result.
In the graphic below the first illustration on the left shows the illustration done in Expression. (I left the lines so one can see the
points in each line.)
I exported the illustration from Expression to Flash as an .swf file. (Middle graphic).
Then I exported the illustration from Flash to Moho as a .ai file. (right graphic).
I left the points visible to see the difference in what happens to the graphic in Moho vs. Expression. It went from around 100 points in Expression to over 10,000 points in Moho!
With so many points one can´t use this in Moho.
J - if you think I did this incorrectly please show me how I can do it so that the number of points in the final drawing in Moho is minimized and workable.

(click to see larger view)

Toontoonz · Post by **Toontoonz** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:06 pm

Expression is free (for now)
Flash costs U.S. $ 499.00 or in Europe - 599.00 Euros.

Nichod · Post by **Nichod** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:48 pm

I've successfully gotten .ai files straight from Expression in, but anything too complex and it just brings Moho down to its knees. I have yet to get the Cat sample imported into Moho.

Toontoonz isn't there a few point reduction scripts out there that could be used to reduce the amount of points to make it a bit more manageable.

Brian

Toontoonz · Post by **Toontoonz** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:11 pm

Nichod wrote: Toontoonz isn't there a few point reduction scripts out there that could be used to reduce the amount of points to make it a bit more manageable.
Brian

Yes, I thought of that, too, and hoped that would be the solution. But it does not work that well. The shapes I tried it on very quickly lose there shape.
I used the point reducer script that 7foot made. Works okay if there are few points to start with...but when you get 10,000 points in a simple drawing it is impossible to use.
And doing this takes time, time is money. Instead of spending time drawing and animating, one spends their time trying to correct things. A waste of time to me.
One would think that Moho could automatically figure it out by itself how to minimize the number of points and still retain the shape. But then it appears that Moho is not the same type of vector drawing program as other vector programs are.

Venkman · Post by **Venkman** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:33 pm

Is Expression now called Acrylic? because i can't seem to find Expression anywhere for a free download.

Toontoonz · Post by **Toontoonz** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:39 pm

Nichod wrote: Toontoonz isn't there a few point reduction scripts out there that could be used to reduce the amount of points to make it a bit more manageable.
Brian

One other comment: The script 7Foot made is a fine piece of work (7Foot is a wizard with scripts

)...but if 7Foot can come up with a way to reduce the number of points via a script, why can´t Lost Marble build the function into Moho to do the point reduction automatically and make it work even better????

Nichod · Post by **Nichod** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:00 pm

Post it in the feature requests.

Toontoonz · Post by **Toontoonz** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:14 pm

Venkman wrote:Is Expression now called Acrylic? because i can't seem to find Expression anywhere for a free download.

Acrylic is to take the place of Expression.
Acrylic beta version can be downloaded here - it expires in October.
http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/

Venkman · Post by **Venkman** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:43 pm

So i was having problems downloading Acrylic..... I downloaded it and opened the file and there was a file inside of it that my computer couldn't read.... is it not for mac? I'll try and figure it out...

however... Right now I'm downloading somethign else i found... Creature House? Is this what I want? Or should I go with an earlier version of expression if acrylic isn't working?

Venkman · Post by **Venkman** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:53 pm

okay, Scratch that... What i downloaded IS Expression 3... and it looks pretty sweet... i like it already.... I just need some tutorials to start learning how to use it. Does anyone kknow of any they can point me to?

Sorry if I'm being annoying, I'm just eager to make some sweet animations...

jahnocli: I think you're getting carried away. The animation in the second film is good, but the artwork isn't that great in either -- just seems pretty formulaic anime.

I think they're pretty amazing looking... if there better out there then WOW... I'd love you show me those.... It'd probably knock me off my feet. - however, at this point in my learning stage, setting those two animations as goals is what I'm focusing on right now. I'd love to be able to make something like that....