How do I prevent this from happening?

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Toontoonz
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How do I prevent this from happening?

Post by Toontoonz » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:41 pm

Please see attached file.
http://img256.echo.cx/my.php?image=dress6id.jpg
How does this happen and how do I prevent this from happening?
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typo
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Post by typo » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:32 pm

For some reason, I thought the 'dot pattern' was a texture onto the dress shape.
Toontoonz
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Post by Toontoonz » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:04 pm

It is not a dot pattern on the yellow dress (an image), but rather it is a vector drawn yellow dress with black line and individual orangish vector dots/shapes of color are on the dress to form a pattern.
Toontoonz
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Post by Toontoonz » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:24 pm

Here is another example:

Image

How do I get the yellow dot to stay and distort/move with the red rectangle it is in?
Toontoonz
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Post by Toontoonz » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:37 pm

Here is another example. There is probably a real easy solution and I don´t know what it is.

Image
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jorgy
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Post by jorgy » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:44 pm

Maybe you want to use layer binding (assign points to a bone regardless of how far away from the bone they are)?
Toontoonz
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Post by Toontoonz » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:21 pm

jorgy wrote:Maybe you want to use layer binding (assign points to a bone regardless of how far away from the bone they are)?

I tried layer binding as outlined in tutorial 3.1.
Layer binding seems to work when shapes are adjacent to each other, but for some reason that I can´t figure out how to get layer binding to work on shapes that overlap or on top of each other. So I must be missing a step or something.

If anyone else can try it - shape(s) on shape(s) then add bones and move it and everything moves in harmony with each other, please post some pictures and a step-by-step of how you did it. (I know, it is probably one step, but I am too dumb to figure it out.)
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jorgy
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Post by jorgy » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:45 pm

Are the shapes in the same layer? i.e. in your second example, are the yellow and blue in the same vector layer?
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typo
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Post by typo » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:53 pm

The only thing I could think of was to create the shapes within the layer that will be transformed/modified by bone movements (i.e. dots built right into the shape you want to move).

But that may be a large pain in the ass or cause other problems that I haven't a clue how to fix.

EDIT: What I suggested does nothing.
Toontoonz
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Post by Toontoonz » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:15 pm

jorgy wrote:Are the shapes in the same layer? i.e. in your second example, are the yellow and blue in the same vector layer?
Yes.

And I tried it when they are on different layers. No matter which configuration I use, If the shapes overlap or on top of each other it happens.
Toontoonz
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Post by Toontoonz » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:28 pm

This is only guessing or theorizing on my part, but since within a layer one can move shapes up and down within the layer using the Fill tool: Raise Shape and Lower Shape - that there are actual layers within a single layer. (Tutorial 2.4).

How this effects things I don´t know. But since each shape is its own layer within a layer, one would need to flatten the shapes into one big shape so that they could move optimally in relation to each other. As it is now they are independant shapes tied together by a bone, each shape moving in relation to its own geometry and location all the bone axis.

Just all guess on my part. I am waiting for Lost Marble to weigh in on this.
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bupaje
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Post by bupaje » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:27 pm

Does the origin make a difference? Meaning if you set the origin for the two shapes to the same location? Also is the number of points the same on the overlying shapes? Maybe they distort different because of different number of points influenced by the bone?

Just random thoughts as I'm still green ...
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jorgy
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Post by jorgy » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:50 pm

I think I know what's going on here.

The dress is made up of fewer points, and when the bones warp it, the lines take the shortest route between the points. I'm not sure how to fix this, but if the spots were attached to a grid on the dress, then they would "know" where to stay attached to on the dress.

But in a simple example I whipped up, but creating many more points in the large shape, I was able to get things to warp more "realistically".

Let me know if you want the .moho files.

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ralphrubbish
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Post by ralphrubbish » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:17 pm

i've been messing with this a little bit and even if you make a shape with a hole in it it acts the same. so i don't know if it actually has anything to do with the layers within layers or just points being seperate. i've actually SORTOF figured out a way around this...but it makes for alot of setup.
try something like this and see if it suits you.
Image

have you tried using an image texture? they probably don't quite work how you'd like them too either, but at least they wouldn't leave the outline!
Toontoonz
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Post by Toontoonz » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:18 pm

bupaje wrote:Does the origin make a difference? Meaning if you set the origin for the two shapes to the same location? Also is the number of points the same on the overlying shapes? Maybe they distort different because of different number of points influenced by the bone?
I tried changing the origin, but I did not notice much or any difference.
Regarding the points, each has a different number of points. And if that was the cause the solution is worse - everything has to be constructed to have the same exact number of points. Imagine all the work it would take to get 10,20, or more shapes to have the same number of points - whew!

jorgy:
but if the spots were attached to a grid on the dress, then they would "know" where to stay attached to on the dress.
The spots can´t be attached to the dress (as far as I know) because they are separate shapes than the dress. Even though they are on the same vector layer the dots/spots are above the layer of the dress.

And regarding you note:
"...but creating many more points in the large shape, I was able to get things to warp more "realistically". "
I have not tried that, but I would imagine that would be a lot of work to have to add point after point after point on 20+ shapes in a layer. (And everytime one adds a point to shape iin Moho, I have found the the shape changes just a bit.) Try adding points on a round circle in Moho.
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