freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Moho allows users to write new tools and plugins. Discuss scripting ideas and problems here.

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Slyanim
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freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by Slyanim »

Hello!

I follow the forum for years, but it is my first topic ( my english is not the best).
I'm an animation student and love to try and play with new softwares. I have to work in the industry with several 2d animation softwares like Animate CC, Tvpaint, Toon Boom and of course Moho. I think Moho has the best animation tools! I miss one feature in Moho. It's the pen pressure opacity, if it has that than it was the ultimate 2d animation software. The only feature makes me to use Tvpaint to create (tradicional looking, artsy fartsy) frame by frame animation.

SO the question is: Is it possible to create a script to make pen pressure sensitive opacity similar to stroke size? I don't have any experiments in coding or scripting. I guess it would be hard to make it because of the vector based program.
Maybe it would be easier in pixel based program, but Moho has pixel based brush mechanics too. I can make brushes what contains several pixel based pictures. In the Brush Settings menu there is an option " random order". In theory I have a brush what cointains lot's of png files in order completely light to dark (0% - 100% pressure). Is it possible to make a script to sync the pen pressure to the order of the png files? ( Light pen pressure = light, hardly visible alpha, Heavy pen pressure = dark, more visible alpha). It would be similar to the Tvpaint animated brush feature. There is a pencil brush in Tvpaint what works exactly the same.

I hope what I write is clear. I try some very impressive and useful scripts from this forum. If this concept would be possible to make. I think Moho would be the number one 2d animation software in the industry.
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synthsin75
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by synthsin75 »

That's not a bad idea to try using brushes. There's several problems though. You can only change brushes between two points (by making a new shape between them), so unless there are a ton of points, the transitions wouldn't look smooth. And then when you make shapes between every two points, transparency overlaps at every point, making darker circles where the transparencies add to each other.

I just can't see a way to script it with what's currently available in Moho, and I've tried to figure out a way several times.
Slyanim
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by Slyanim »

There is a test what I've made. I created a (700x700 px) project and tap a brush stroke in the center of it. Animated the layer to 1 frame 100% to frame 72 0% opacity. After that, I rendered it to a png seq. I put it to the brush folder and than test it (pictures). The last picture is a rendered pic. The brush order worked ( dark to light). It's not pen pressure sensitive so the brush went to dark to light and after repeat it automatically. Is it possible to make a plugin or something to make a menu check box like " pen pressure order" into the Brush Settings menu? Then I think it would works fine.

Thank you for the answers!

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synthsin75
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by synthsin75 »

The only thing you could do is adjust the spacing so the sequence doesn't repeat. There's not even a way to reverse it, so it starts more transparent and ends opaque.
Slyanim
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by Slyanim »

synthsin75 wrote:The only thing you could do is adjust the spacing so the sequence doesn't repeat. There's not even a way to reverse it, so it starts more transparent and ends opaque.
Thanks for the reply!
Ok, so it looks like impossible to make this idea in moho 12. Does this idea worth to share in the feature request topic? Maybe it would inspire the creators ( Mike Clifton, Victor Paredes) for the next realese.
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synthsin75
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by synthsin75 »

Yeah, by all means, request it the Feature request thread. The developers are likely the only ones who can make it happen. I think others have requested it before, but it never hurts to add more voices to the request.
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by Víctor Paredes »

The Point color has the option to assign alpha to the color of a point. You can use that with or without brushes.
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synthsin75
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by synthsin75 »

Víctor Paredes wrote:The Point color has the option to assign alpha to the color of a point. You can use that with or without brushes.
Now that might be scriptable. I forgot all about point color.
chucky
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by chucky »

Script for pressure to point colour transparency.
I ( and others) have begged for this , so I'm glad there are more people from the forum asking for it.
I really can't understand why this has been so long coming.
VIctor's post is exactly what I have asked for, or any other method for a long time before point colouring.
Here's a link for those with permission.
https://mantis.smithmicro.com/view.php?id=33786


I don't know why that would be hard to script ( if one can script at all;) ) would it not just be a case of pressure = opacity?
Of course every point would have to be tinted as the stroke progresses - methinks you could apply colour values too (not just opacity) to pressure - does moho recognise tilt?- I actually think I've requested the possibility of sampling/mixing underling colours as the stroke passes over to give the impression of mixing paint- as an exciting option.

The Main problem would be with previewing.
AS point colouring requiring shape effects, it would actually have to lever far more graphic power than would be expected for such a bog standard request.

Maybe a script by users would be a really great stand in, and maybe be enough to tantalise development 'fer real?' :wink: :wink:

Is anyone up for it?

Oh and Bravo, Slyanim for your topic and research :D :D
Slyanim
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by Slyanim »

Víctor Paredes wrote:The Point color has the option to assign alpha to the color of a point. You can use that with or without brushes.
Yes it maybe a solution, if it would works like the pen pressure / vector point line width synchronization. I don't know how it works. I usually see some changes between the preview strokes and applied strokes. Every vector points assign a pen pressure data and between two points the software make a transition of the two values, maybe? I think, It usually works in visually. So theoretically: Would the color point = assign a pen pressure / vector point color alpha value synchronization work?
Yes, I guess it would be not perfect as like as the pen pressure / line width stuff, but it would be good enough. An other question: would it be too hardware consuming?
If it's not possible to script, was it possible to develope / code it? (maybe in the next realises)

Btw, MANY THANKS for the reply!
Slyanim
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by Slyanim »

chucky wrote:Script for pressure to point colour transparency.
I ( and others) have begged for this , so I'm glad there are more people from the forum asking for it.
I really can't understand why this has been so long coming.
VIctor's post is exactly what I have asked for, or any other method for a long time before point colouring.
Here's a link for those with permission.
https://mantis.smithmicro.com/view.php?id=33786


I don't know why that would be hard to script ( if one can script at all;) ) would it not just be a case of pressure = opacity?
Of course every point would have to be tinted as the stroke progresses - methinks you could apply colour values too (not just opacity) to pressure - does moho recognise tilt?- I actually think I've requested the possibility of sampling/mixing underling colours as the stroke passes over to give the impression of mixing paint- as an exciting option.

The Main problem would be with previewing.
AS point colouring requiring shape effects, it would actually have to lever far more graphic power than would be expected for such a bog standard request.

Maybe a script by users would be a really great stand in, and maybe be enough to tantalise development 'fer real?' :wink: :wink:

Is anyone up for it?

Oh and Bravo, Slyanim for your topic and research :D :D
Oh yeah, I forgot that fact, we have to make a 2 dimensional shape, so the color point / pen pressure idea wouldn't work, at all. Maybe it works with the blob brush, but I don't know.
:(

So the only one solution would be a raster/ drawing layer / bitmap brush combo thingy, maybe with some Clip Studio codes (hehe :D ). ( Oh my God, would be a dream come true)

I know, It won't happen, so I have to develope a fast method to jump between the two programs to use those handy features separately ( Clip Studio = simple, but awesome pixel based painting tools and Moho Studio = keyframe transitions, smart bones, warps etc.)

Anyway, Moho is already a great software!

Thank you for your reply!
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synthsin75
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by synthsin75 »

Slyanim wrote:Oh yeah, I forgot that fact, we have to make a 2 dimensional shape, so the color point / pen pressure idea wouldn't work, at all. Maybe it works with the blob brush, but I don't know.
Point coloring works fine with strokes. The problem is that if you then use those strokes to make filled shapes, the point coloring transfers to the fill as well. So if this mod is done, you'd have to create your fills on another layer, reference or duplicate.
chucky
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by chucky »

Yeah I forgot about the point colour effecting fill, that is a bummer.

On the issue of fill/ stroke layers and references.
I have often wondered if an fill sub layer ( like in toon boom ) might be the go.
The controlling vectors are the same ( not duplicates) but the fill 'sort of' displays on a sub layer ( I'm not sure about the exact detail there)
So that would be especially good for this and when using the bucket.
Freehand plus bucket can work ok but all there is such an excess of points which become a nightmarish tangle.
OR...If you bucket fill by ' referencing' ( clip studio style) on another layer and keep the stroke layer as the boss, then you could have stroke opacity and fill tinting without interference.

Normal Moho References are great but.... you know , they aren't always ' set and forget' and not for this purpose, other programs call these references 'instances'.. eh?
Slyanim
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by Slyanim »

synthsin75 wrote:
Slyanim wrote:Oh yeah, I forgot that fact, we have to make a 2 dimensional shape, so the color point / pen pressure idea wouldn't work, at all. Maybe it works with the blob brush, but I don't know.
Point coloring works fine with strokes. The problem is that if you then use those strokes to make filled shapes, the point coloring transfers to the fill as well. So if this mod is done, you'd have to create your fills on another layer, reference or duplicate.
You are right! I wrote it, when I woke up early today. I tried it, but my display settings was not right ( shape effects wasn't checked).

If this mod is done, I would totally okay with the separated layer compromise. It would be easier, if layers had setting checkboxes like / show or render just strokes / show or render just fills - and There would be a layer for the strokes - check the strokes only - and a reference layer for fills - check fills only -.
It would be a great frame by frame/ traditional animation solution too. You can manipulate fills and stroke after you finish the whole scene.( It's not possible in bitmap softwares.) In my head of course, but probably it would be difficult to do it in real life! :D

So what can I do to make this point coloring / pen pessure script come true? I'm a total noob in any code language, but I'm very excited.
Slyanim
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Re: freehand drawing with pen pressure opacity

Post by Slyanim »

chucky wrote: I have often wondered if an fill sub layer ( like in toon boom ) might be the go.
The controlling vectors are the same ( not duplicates) but the fill 'sort of' displays on a sub layer ( I'm not sure about the exact detail there)
So that would be especially good for this and when using the bucket.
Freehand plus bucket can work ok but all there is such an excess of points which become a nightmarish tangle.
OR...If you bucket fill by ' referencing' ( clip studio style) on another layer and keep the stroke layer as the boss, then you could have stroke opacity and fill tinting without interference.
Sub layer would be great tool. I don't know what is more hardware consuming / complicated - sub layer - or reference layer, but they are definitely would be solutions.
I really hope this ideas can improve MOHO future releases. Would it be too good / professional? haha :)
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