Check out scripts Fazek has been creating

(This forum has been closed. Please use the General Moho Discussion forum.)

Moderators: Fahim, Distinct Sun, Víctor Paredes, erey, Belgarath, slowtiger

Check out scripts Fazek has been creating

Postby Toontoonz » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:18 pm

As one who rarely enters into the Scripts Forum section I recently downloaded the tools that Fazek has written.

Link:
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3507

I would recommend that everyone try them out. Working with Moho is much less clumsy and smoother using Fazek´s tools vs. the Moho versions.

Fazek is a genius wizard of programming scripts for Moho! Let´s hope he makes many more.
Toontoonz
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:28 pm

Postby Toontoonz » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:48 am

Everyone should install Fazek´s Translate tool.
It is soooooooooooooo much better than Moho´s Translate tool.

With Fazek´s Translate tool you can:
-Select multiple points with by holding down the Shift key (can´t do that with Moho Translate tool).

-Select multiple points by click and dragging over several points (can´t do that with Moho Translate tool).

(And now using Fazek´s Translate tool select groups of multiple points by click and dragging over several points in combination with holding down the Shift key - impossible with Moho´s Translate tool.)

- Select multiple points using the lasso option in the Translate tool key (can´t do that with Moho Translate tool).

Fazek´s Translate tool takes it out of the Stone Age and basically eliminates the need for Moho´s Select Points tool.
Workflow and productivity is so much better using Fazek´s Translate tool. No more clicking back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, between the Moho Select Points Tool and the Translate Tool! Hurrah!!!!
Toontoonz
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:28 pm

Postby Toontoonz » Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:38 pm

Fazek´s new Freehand tool:
A dream come true.

In the Freehand Options menu Fazek has added a "Fixed" line width option.
It´s great.
Even greater - NOW you can draw with your mouse and get a proper sized line. With the Moho Freehand tool one could never draw with the mouse and get a proper line EXCEPT when choosing the "random line width" option. And then to get a fixed line width one had to put in the same number in both the "Min width" and "Max width" (so awkward and illogical to work with).

Now with Mazek´s Freehand tool just select "Fixed", select the line width and draw away using your mouse or drawing pad stylus. Great.
------------

Another cool, subtle, "thank you Fazek" thing that he has done:
Using Moho´s Freehand tool one opens the "Freehand Options" window, then to close that window one clicks in the main drawing window -----and when you do that a POINT is drawn in the window that you now have to delete. A pain in the butt everytime!
NOT so with Fazek´s Freehand tool. Open the "Freehand Options" window, then close it by clicking in the main drawing window and NO point is made. No more pain in the butt, clumsy Moho way of doing things! Hurray! This irritation is gone!


Tip to LM:
Put Fazek on your payroll. Get him making Moho more user friendly.
Toontoonz
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:28 pm

Postby heyvern » Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:04 pm

Toontoonz wrote:... Tip to LM: Put Fazek on your payroll. Get him making Moho more user friendly.


Shhhh! He seems to be doing it for free already... don't want the price of Moho to go up too high.

;)

p.s. A big shout out to 7feet as well. He got me interested in lua scripting with all of his cool tools when I first started.

-vern
User avatar
heyvern
 
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Postby Fazek » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:17 pm

Thank you for the many expressions of thanks, it touched me so - and inspiring to continue.... I made all of these for free. We have an animation studio here and we are using my own programs to scan, paint, render etc. Moho is only a part of the system. We have well proved conventions and I want to see these things in Moho too. For example we need vectorising of scanned images, peghole recognition, painting etc. (YES! I NEED A STYLE PALETTE TOO!)

What LM could help me is to give out more information about Moho's technology - I hope there are not too much trade secrects in there. I have many blank holes on my knowledge. I can discover many things with experiments but it takes the time from the real work. For example, I could make a curvature tool with handles to modify the curves, just like some Bezier tools in other programs, but I can't because I don't know what is behind the curvature value. This knowledge would be important for the vectorising too.

I hope my works and even these topics helps LM somehow - at least to inspire the development. That's not too much, but if LM wants to stop here, I understand.

Without expecting any fee, I could help LM to design the new interfaces, function sets and file formats. I don't think I could work on the internal "core" of Moho - I prefer to work alone without restrictions (that's why I am using Linux, for example).

In Lua (the scripting language, what is an independent freeware system, built into Moho) it is possible to expand the system with additional shared libraries, written in C. This could make possible to write expansions to Moho in the C language. Only C has the power to make really nice things. But at least in the Linux version, Moho doesn't support this feature. Lua is free, so I hope LM will use the most recent version and will enable all of the developer-friendly functions in the future versions of Moho.
- - - Fazek
User avatar
Fazek
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: Hungary

Postby Toontoonz » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:11 pm

Fazek, I am glad you are contributing scripts that improve the way one works with Moho. Your tools make working with Moho much easier, more efficient, more productive and much more fun.

I have always been so frustrated with Moho´s tools-so much back and forth clicking - the tools are so clumsy and awkward to use.
As I told a friend if LM designed a Shovel to dig a hole, there would not be one tool to do it, but three: the Hole Selector tool, the Dirt Digger tool and then the Dirt Removal tool.
First one would use the Hole Selector tool tool to select one´s area to dig out dirt. Then one would put the Hole Selector tool down, and pick up the Dirt Digger tool and stick in in the selected hole area.
Then one would pull Dirt Digger tool out and use the Dirt Removal to take out some dirt that was designated by the Dirt Digger tool. To take out more dirt one would put down the Dirt Removal tool pick up the Dirt Digger tool to select more dirt to remove, then pick up Dirt Removal tool....on and on changing tools back and forth until the hole was dug.

Want to fill up the hole? Ahhh...that requires another set of LM shovel tools: Dirt in Pile Selector tool and Hole Filler tool, but first remember to use the Hole Selector tool to designate which hole to fill. :D

I hope LM brings in some people with fresh thinking and new ideas.
Toontoonz
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:28 pm

Postby heyvern » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:38 pm

I think we got the idea Toontoonz.. you don't like the default tools in Moho... This is very clear... crystal clear... enough already! We got it!

;)

Uh... just don't be so hard on LM....
He created the program you like so much (except for the default tools.. yeah I got that).

The fact that we all have the ability to create NEW tools for Moho using LUA was inspired by the same person. The same person who created Moho... not a different person... same guy.

He did have the brillaint idea to immplement LUA into Moho giving the users the oppurtunity to expand on it and make it better.

As a matter of fact... I think... just maybe... he spent more of his time on THAT aspect knowing full well... that NO ONE is ever perfectly happy with the function of any tool. Everyone has their own preferences.

Instead of complaining about it... I learned a bit of LUA and created my own tools... they sucked more than the originals in some ways... but I made them work like I wanted. ;)

When I realized this potential... I kind of chuckled to myself. It is truely a brilliant idea for creative/production software. I wish ALL programs were like this. I had never seen this before in any application (outside of MS Word macros and Applescript).

Make the tools completely and totally customizable by any user. Then focus on the actual programs "internal" capabilities (the really hard stuff that involves math and curves and motion... blah blah blah)...

... and let the users make a better...

Hole Digger Advanced Pro Tool System MXP®
©2006 Lost Marble Earth Moving Corporation

So... my eternal thanks and applause to both LM and all of those wickedly talented LUA programmers who have allowed me to never have to look at that stuff again. They are a great team.

I have retired from LUA programming... except for that bone thingy I did... I like that one. ;)

-Vern
User avatar
heyvern
 
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Postby Toontoonz » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:28 pm

Vern, You don´t like people complaining about Moho - I got it Vern. :wink:

If more people would complain - make suggestions - whatever you want to call it maybe LM would have changed these things earlier. Moho is 7 years old - 7 years old! - Nobody in 7 years has complained about the tools in Moho before me??? And if they did obviously LM decided it was not worth improving them.
What does LM get in return for making its software more useable? More sales.
Everyone, every single person I know personally that has tried Moho has given up after about 1-6 months out of frustration that it is just too much hassle and awkward to work with (and other limitations) with Moho.
(If I was running LM that type of info would just scare the business "beheejees" out of me. )

And then along comes a script writing wizard (Fazek) and (Wham!) he makes some really great tool modifications to Moho. Ones that I was lead to believe were impossible to do. (Yes, I have complained about the Moho tools before and back then I am sure somebody told me stop complaining.)
The tools Fazek made are great, so great I started this forum topic to point them out to people. (I am surprised more people have not chimed in and congratulated & thanked Fazek for his great tools.) I hope people use them. I hope Fazek makes more improvements to Moho. :D

Vern you will never, ever see me write a LUA script or any type of programming for anything - I will leave that to the geniuses like Fazek. :D

And, yes Vern, I know LM is the only programmer on Moho, he just had a baby and Moho only costs $99.
:wink:
Toontoonz
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:28 pm

Postby bupaje » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:39 pm

The LUA guys -and I won't list the names because I don't want to offend anyone who made even one or two tools if I leave them out - have added lots of value to Moho. I have seen a few similar efforts with tools I use where the user community has been really awesome - like this one is.

I understand your gripes and as a 'hobbyist' who hasn't done anything significant with Moho my perception may not be the same as those who have to do real work but I don't think LM needs defending. To his credit, in addition to his job, Mike has managed to make 14 or so updates to Moho (according to the Announcement forum), create a new program Papagayo which has had 2 or 3 releases plus 2 beta version releases, responded to about 1500 posts (including several which were step by step or mini tutorials like the 'old film' 'warp' and other effects), created some documentation for scripting and so on, done some maintenance on the site including changing the format (or the player) for all the videos in the gallery, answered plenty of private emails (I know I sent them), dealt with whatever needs to be done on the business end, and dealt with a family and full time job. I am also betting that many changes or new tool which may seem insignificant to us required lots of figuring out API's and other programming goobledy-gook. That's in just the 19 or so months of this new forum. Divide the above by 19 and that's a hell of a lot of work. :)

A side idea I have .... why should the programmers get all the glory? Maybe all the artsy types among us can create some brushes, backgrounds, props and other free resources? I can host any free quality resources like that for the community.
[url=http://burtabreu.animationblogspot.com:2gityfdw]My AnimationBlogSpot[/url:2gityfdw]
User avatar
bupaje
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:44 pm
Location: California

Postby Ramón López » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:00 am

Toontoonz wrote:Nobody in 7 years has complained about the tools in Moho before me???


...EY! (HI! :D) But... but I'm complaining too a long time ago!!! :x Jeje, althought (as always) you and I, Toontoonz, be fighting for so different things...

Well, of course I agree with you about things must be said clearly for it can be changed and you have my support ;), I think our fightings can be a help to make Moho grows and a improbed tool (or I hope so...), plus we all (you and I at least) are "old" Moho users and I asume all of we love it, and cause of this we complain and spend our time on it... I always applaud those Moho features that I think makes Moho so *BrIlLiaNt* and lovely and and try to be critic with those things that I think are not so good for it... nothing bad on it IMO, but of course all they are only that, opinions, and all of they can be discussed... If I love Moho and I take criticism very well, I asume/hope LM too :)

...Well, apart of this I must say that Fazek is writing things SO important to me that I think never (NEVER!) be enough grateful! :D Only I'd like to have more time actually to can work with them... :( But well, here they are and I'm sure some day it will save my life :)

About improbed Moho tools I must say that I was a little reluctant at first cause usually tend to feel a little more sure under the LM "supported" in the case of essential tools... plus I thought (at first) that I shoud have duplicated tools and I disliked (a little again) that fact... Now I have a lot of they installed and I'm happily working with them :) I specially love that translate tool and the posibility of use same tools to work with both points and bones, with very curious results in that last case, by the way... Well, I still have thanked Fazek for it in the other post but here is my :D THANKS :D on this one too..

Well, I think there is a lot of things that I've remained unsaid but... well, I think there is a limit of "English" that I can write per day... GREETINGS!!!
User avatar
Ramón López
 
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:41 pm
Location: Elda! Again...

Postby Toontoonz » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:02 pm

I wonder how many Moho owners actually use Moho pass the initial "bounce the ball" and "swimming fish" and other experiments?

I wonder how many Moho owners have installed Fazeks scripts...or any scripts? (As I said before I am surprised more people have not given thanks for the great scripts Fazek wrote. If one installed them one would be pleasantly surprised at the night and day difference between Fazek´s and Moho´s tools. So it makes me wonder if many people actually install scripts in Moho.)

And to all of you that like to defend Moho because of all the hard work he does well I can think a 99 ways each of us already thanked him. (Moho costs $99).
And I do not ever remember hearing stories about Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or other computer greats whining about they work too hard, alone, have kids, whatever. They did what needed to be done to move their product forward - such as hire people, get investors, other business partners etc.
This is the only software I have seen where users sit around in the forum defending the author because he says he is overworked. That´s his problem that he can´t figure out to hire more people and manage his business - that should not even be known to end users.
Toontoonz
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:28 pm

Postby Toontoonz » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:38 pm

And I wonder why LM has not said anything positive (or any comment at all) about Fazek´s scripts?

Or why there is so very little input from LM in the scripts forum? One would think that LM would be prodding, promoting, pushing and helping all the scripters that make useful scripts for Moho and do it for no monetary remuneration.
Toontoonz
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:28 pm

Postby bupaje » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:32 pm

Well I don't want to go any further down this road. I think one of the strengths of this forum is the varied people, opinions and experience each brings. It's ok we see things different, in facts its better that we do. 9 times out of 10 the truth is somewhere between divergent opinions. I also love your work so don't want to get you hopping mad. ;)

I have only dabbled with Moho but now that I am taking Flash, Illustrator and After Effects - and next semester Toon Boom and 3DS Max (Yeah!) I hope to include Moho with these in an animated short featuring the character I developed. Just trying to put a little more thought into it than my usual 'just jump in and start swinging' approach followed by my 'shoot, I should have done it this way, better start over' followup. Not quite sure if I use 3D+2D as some have, or switch layers etc etc and what I'll be doing in Flash and what in Moho. Once I sort that out I'd like to have 4 or 5 rigged characters that I can use and just focus on the animation. School finishes in about 9 months and I want a better final project than the rushed ones I usually see.

I actually use mactons tools a lot, some of 7feets and I have one or two others by myles and rylleman. I haven't tried Fazeks yet, partlly because I was in school and partly because I am now totally confused by what is what since I installed so many tools and also early on I installed some in wrong folders etc. I may just have to redownload the tools I need, trying to avoid duplication, reinstall Moho and then make sure I put the stuff in there right.

It probably would be cool if you could create custom toolbars so I could assign different tools to different toolbars and pick 'load ToolSet1' etc depending on what I was working on -without having to shut down and restart Moho. This would allow me to organize all these tools in a way that makes sense to me.
[url=http://burtabreu.animationblogspot.com:2gityfdw]My AnimationBlogSpot[/url:2gityfdw]
User avatar
bupaje
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:44 pm
Location: California

Postby heyvern » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:12 pm

So you can complain Toontoonz... but I can't jump up and down and cheer?

Seems a bit unfair. Just trying to get some balance.
-----------------------------------

The default tools that LM wrote for the default installation of Moho SUCK LEMONS! They are ridiculous.

I was shocked at how... annoying they were at first...

Within a week or two of purchase I had found the scripting forum... downloaded scripts from 7feet (Fazek seems to be the new "7feet"... Just joking Brian) and was very happy... not just happy for the new selection tools... but blown away by the ability to make new ones on my own!

I modified some scripts on my own (I am not a programmer except for some Javascript and never used LUA before) and created a bone mastering layer script that I can't live without now. If I stop development of this script I am screwed since all of my projects use it. I should email myself and complain about bugs and not releasing a new version.

All I'm saying is that the default tools have sucked for a long time. You aren't the first and won't be the last to complain. Why kick a dead horse? If you think LM isn't aware of this... well... we've got bigger problems.

The tools are there to "fix" it on our own. Wait long enough someone creates a new tool... probably faster than LM could do it himself.

All I'm saying is... how do you bash LM so badly and praise Fazek?

Fazek is just like us. He runs a studio and he used the tools in Moho to make better tools. Makes sense to me.

That is why large 3D animation studios "make" their own tools and have programmers on staff to change things all the time.

Many of those 3D applications have open architectures so that the users can make their own tools... no one can anticipate every possible need.

Just lighten up a tad. I think the praise you heap on the scripters here is also deserved by the one guy that made it possible in the first place. The guy who made the program that is worth complaining about in the first place.

Is the glass half empty or half full? In my case it is half full. In yours... It is half empty and evaporation is a bad feature that needs fixing.

-Vern
User avatar
heyvern
 
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Postby slowtiger » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:18 am

Hm ... what's all the fuzz about?
OK, so you can script Moho. You can even script essential functions and tweak them to your taste. That's great, and I'm sure there are a dozen people or so who really could use this kind of wizardry. There's also the small possibility that some script might be even better than the tool LM implemented in the first run.

But my current problems are not to be solved with scripting or adding functionality or stuff. It's all about filmmaking, it's about having good ideas, making layouts that work and designing characters the audience will like. There's no script in the world which can do that.

I will, however, use scripts and whatever combination of software to optimise my production line. Workflow tools are the ones I'm really missing in Moho, so far. The tools to create animation are a bit awkward for people who, like me, are used to other software, but I was able to adapt, so I can say "this way is just different, it's not necessarily better or worse than others".

Of course it would be nice if all vector programs would have the same tools and the same way to use them - it would save time and trouble for those who have to switch applications a lot. There's a big bunch of tools where there has been established a "canonical" way of how they should work - everyone agrees that there isn't any better way. But there's also an equally big bunch of tools or better procedures where people really fight wars about how to do it and how to implement that funtionality into software. I am quite glad that I at least have the chance to alter things my way, if necessary - that's much more than other software manufactureres would allow.
User avatar
slowtiger
 
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Next

Return to Moho 5

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests